Help with this rolled chord in Clair de Lune?
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There’s a rolled chord in Clair de Lune that is giving me a lot of trouble. Here’s the score:
This is measures 25-27. Oh and for the record, CdL (this part anyway) is in Db major, so five flats.
The part I’m struggling with is the LH in measure 26. First I played it 5-4-3-2-1, then I tried 5-3-2-1-2. Neither fingering choice was working. Then my teacher suggested to take the Db Eb with the thumb (i.e. play them with the thumb at basically the same time o r maybe with a slight lag as the thumb goes down on Db first), so now I’m playing it 5-3-2-1-1. I’ve been trying to play it this way for the last few days.
But with each of these three options, I can’t seem to get it to sound right, or even passable. The rest of the LH here, and of course the RH, are all fine.
Any suggestions about how to practice it? Or any thoughts on these different fingering options? What fingering would you do?
@kluurs @bernard and @andyd any advice?
Anyone else, please chime in!
TIA!!
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I do 1-2-3-4-5, but it didn't work for me at first--it was uneven and unpredictable. The way I figured out what to do was as follows. I don't know if I can explain it in words, but I'll try.
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I looked at the pattern of notes in the left hand, Eb-Gb-Ab-Db-Eb in the treble. The chord starts on Eb which is on the right side of a 2 black key block (Db and Eb), skips over 2 white keys to the next black key, Gb, then the next black key, Ab, then skips four half steps to the black key, Db, and finally the next black key, Eb.
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Then I figure out how to mirror that pattern for my right hand. So mirroring Eb-Gb-Ab-Db-Eb going up, I play in descending notes--with my right hand--Db (half step from middle C), Bb, Ab, Eb, Db using 5-4-3-2-1. It's the same pattern the left hand has to play but reversed for the right hand (and on different notes obviously, it's the pattern that counts).
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If I can play the mirror image of the pattern with my right hand, then it's just a process of figuring out what I'm doing on the right side of my body (hand, arm, shoulder, ...) that I'm not doing on my left. For me, I discovered a good deal of tension in the crook of my left elbow.
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Then I start making up exercises for my left hand while it's crossed in front of my body, specifically in an effort to open up my left elbow. For instance, holding my pinky on the Eb, trying to play step wise with my thumb and fore finger several notes away. It turns out I also had stiffness on the inside of my upper arm. It's a slow process and sometimes intense, but it works for me.
Of course, we're all individual and none of this may help. I hope it does.
Otherwise, an alternate fingering.
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Sudden thought, is your body far enough right to make the fingers feel natural? Maybe move up the stool, or try the chord two octaves lower to find what works?
@AndyD thanks! I'll try to see where I'm sitting, and if I can lean more to the right. That's very helpful!!
@bernard omg! doing the mirror thing is brilliant!! I'm also going to try to do the LH rolled chords an octave (or two!) lower and just see how it feels, because I haven't tried that at all yet.
These two things (mirroring and moving lower on the keyboard) might also help me decide whether to use the thumb on the top two notes.
My current teacher has very small hands, like, to my eye, dramatically small. I'm 5'4" and have probably a slightly larger than average reach for a woman. She is quite petite, maybe only 5' tall, and her hands are very small and her fingers look short to me. But of course, she can get her hands to do all kinds of things that I can't. So I think the thumb on two keys things is probably something she has to do. And it sounds fab when she does it.
But I'm not sure I "have" to do it this way.
So I will try all these ideas -- leaning to the right more, mirroring to see how I'm using my body when the roll is in the RH, and then also playing lower on the keyboard to see what fingering feels natural -- and then go from there.
To your (@bernard point about making up exercises -- I was trying to play just the top three, 3-2-1 and it's really getting over "c" that is the problem. (also I think my 3-2-1 spread is stiff)
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BTW, I like my new teacher but she's no where near as dynamic and creative an instructor as my previous teacher was.
That's the way the system here works (uni music school), I don't have much choice, and my teacher last year is graduating in Dec (with a doctorate in piano performance) so she's not teaching this semester anyway.
It's fine, but it really underscores 1) how good my last teacher was, and 2) how inexperienced my current teacher is as a teacher.
All the ideas in this thread are things I don't think she would come up with, but I bet my previous teacher would. She had a trick or a solution to anything I threw at her.
/threaddrift
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I’m not near my piano (in Miami for a conference) but will chime in in a few days. I play that last chord real slow. I like how the C hits before the A, breaking the ‘trebleward’ roll a bit.
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