COVID revisited

[Rontuner]

My son and now daughter in law were the sickest they've ever been around Xmas 2019. She was working front desk at a downtown Chicago hotel and I'd bet there were cases going around here long before that first documented case.

[AndyD]

We just rolled out eyes at the non-takers and no-maskers, for whatever reason they gave, and muttered quietly "Darwinism in action".
Guess that we are far more trusting of our NHS.

Little doubt that it came from a Wuhan laboratory is there?
Our first known case in November 2019:

[jon-nyc]

My understanding is the technical virological evidence on either explanation is circumstantial.

The human evidence is more damning though and points to a lab leak. Like when the lab permanently took their virus database offline in the fall of 2019.

As one wag put it, "Why would bat-virus scientists working at a bat-virus lab hide bat-virus data during a local bat-virus outbreak?"

[AndyD]

No cross over animal from bat to human has been found.
Is it just a massive coincidence the market at the hub of the pandemic is so close to the Wuhan Institue of Virolgy?

CIA and FBI both say it was laboratory sourced.
Yet:
https://theconversation.com/the-covid-lab-leak-theory-is-dead-heres-how-we-know-the-virus-came-from-a-wuhan-market-188163

[wtg]

@AndyD said:

CIA and FBI both say it was laboratory sourced.

Not arguing that it didn't come from the lab, but when did the CIA and FBI determine that? The Conversation article you linked is from 2022. Just wondering if it's an apples to apples comparison....

[jon-nyc]

@andyd

I agree with you that it’s the most likely scenario. I’m just saying there is still no proof either way. At least until the CCP makes it available.

[Rontuner]

Neither CIA or FBI could be politically motivated, right???

[jon-nyc]

@Rontuner said:

Neither CIA or FBI could be politically motivated, right???

Certainly less so than the NIH.

FWIW, it was Biden's FBI and CIA.

[AndyD]

I reckon we'll never see conclusive evidence. It'll remain a conveniently ambiguous historical mystery.

I'll try to find the newspaper article that persuaded me it was a laboratory leak.

[AndyD]

@wtg said:

CIA and FBI both say it was laboratory sourced.

Not arguing that it didn't come from the lab, but when did the CIA and FBI determine that?
....

CIA Jan 2025, FBI Feb 2023

I can't find the newspaper article with everyhing on a timeline, but the following is my quick review on the Wuhan biological warfare research institue, the criminally negligent accidental escape of the covid virus, and the start of the CCP cover up and obfuscation:

...there was no cellphone activity in a high-security portion of the Wuhan Institute of Virology from Oct. 7 through Oct. 24, 2019, and that there may have been a "hazardous event" sometime between Oct. 6 and Oct. 11.

... three researchers from the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV) had fallen ill with Covid-19 in November 2019 and were admitted to hospital...

This predates the 7 market sourced cases reported by Dr. Li, the Chinese opthalmologist on 30th December 2019. He was silenced by Chinese authorities, caught covid in January and unfortunarely died.

A Jan. 24 study published in the medical journal The Lancet found that three of the first four cases — including the first known case — didn't provide a documented link to the Wuhan wet market.

The bats that carry the family of coronaviruses linked to the new strain aren't found within 100 miles of Wuhan — but they were studied in both labs.

Photos and videos have emerged of researchers at both labs collecting samples from bats without wearing protective gear, which experts say poses a risk of human infection.

A U.S. State Department expert who visited the WIV in 2018 wrote in a cable reported by The Washington Post: "During interactions with scientists at the WIV laboratory, [U.S. diplomats] noted the new lab has a serious shortage of appropriately trained technicians and investigators needed to safely operate this high-containment laboratory."

And the cover up...
According to Senate Intelligence Committee member Tom Cotton, R-Ark., the Chinese military posted its top epidemiologist to the WIV in January.
The Shanghai laboratory where researchers published the world's first genome sequence of the coronavirus was shut down Jan. 12, according to The South China Morning Post.
According to U.S. intelligence assessments, including one published by the Department of Homeland Security and reviewed by NBC News, the Chinese government initially covered up the severity of the outbreak. Government officials threatened doctors who warned their colleagues about the virus, weren't candid about human-to-human transmission...

So, 1 million US deaths later, and up to 40 million worldwide, the CCP continues to try to save face.