Help with this rolled chord in Clair de Lune?
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@ShiroKuro If it were me I'd leave out the Db in the left hand as it will be far less noticeable and a Db appears in the right hand as well so it won't be entirely missing from the chord. The Gb seems pretty important to the harmonic movement and it's the only Gb in the chord so it's elimination would make a big difference.
If it were me I'd leave out the Db in the left hand as it will be far less noticeable and a Db appears in the right hand as well so it won't be entirely missing from the chord. The Gb seems pretty important to the harmonic movement and it's the only Gb in the chord so it's elimination would make a big difference.
Thanks so much for this suggestion!! I wasn't tracking that Db in the RH, but of course, there it is!
I played it w/o the Gb and thought it sounded fine, and it was sooo much easier to play, so I thought I'd go with that. But finger-wise, if I don't have to get 2 on that Db, doing 5-4-3 on Eb-Gb-Ab and then 1 on Eb ought to be relatively easy.
I will try this tonight when I practice.
Thank you!!!
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If it were me I'd leave out the Db in the left hand as it will be far less noticeable and a Db appears in the right hand as well so it won't be entirely missing from the chord. The Gb seems pretty important to the harmonic movement and it's the only Gb in the chord so it's elimination would make a big difference.
Thanks so much for this suggestion!! I wasn't tracking that Db in the RH, but of course, there it is!
I played it w/o the Gb and thought it sounded fine, and it was sooo much easier to play, so I thought I'd go with that. But finger-wise, if I don't have to get 2 on that Db, doing 5-4-3 on Eb-Gb-Ab and then 1 on Eb ought to be relatively easy.
I will try this tonight when I practice.
Thank you!!!
@ShiroKuro I barely notice it if the Db is dropped from the left hand. Think of it as changing the voicing (dropping the LH Db) versus changing the harmony (dropping the Gb).
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@ShiroKuro I barely notice it if the Db is dropped from the left hand. Think of it as changing the voicing (dropping the LH Db) versus changing the harmony (dropping the Gb).
I barely notice it if the Db is dropped from the left hand. Think of it as changing the voicing (dropping the LH Db) versus changing the harmony (dropping the Gb).
Yes, it makes total sense! I'm looking forward to trying it this evening. The big question is how it feels under my fingers. I will report back!
And thank you for this suggestion, now I won't look like an idiot in my lesson tomorrow for not having noticed this!
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@bernard I think you found the answer!! Leaving out the Db feels like it solves everything!
My wrist is very stiff (in terms of lateral movement) and when I bring my hand to this part of the keyboard, I just can’t get it in a good position. Leaving out the Gb, I was able to play the roll in one movement that sounded nice but it involved a fair amount of contortion that was pretty uncomfortable.
But by leaving out the Db, first of all, I can get all my fingers on the notes at once with no contortion, and crucially, no discomfort! So I could play that just as a block chord, which I couldn’t do when playing all five notes, and when playing the Db and leaving out the Gb, I could play it as a block chord but as I said, it was uncomfortable.
And second of all, even with the Db missing, it still sounds nice and lush, and it requires very little attention to get my fingers where they need to be. And that was after only practicing it for maybe 5 minutes.
Yay, thank you Bernard!
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@bernard I think you found the answer!! Leaving out the Db feels like it solves everything!
My wrist is very stiff (in terms of lateral movement) and when I bring my hand to this part of the keyboard, I just can’t get it in a good position. Leaving out the Gb, I was able to play the roll in one movement that sounded nice but it involved a fair amount of contortion that was pretty uncomfortable.
But by leaving out the Db, first of all, I can get all my fingers on the notes at once with no contortion, and crucially, no discomfort! So I could play that just as a block chord, which I couldn’t do when playing all five notes, and when playing the Db and leaving out the Gb, I could play it as a block chord but as I said, it was uncomfortable.
And second of all, even with the Db missing, it still sounds nice and lush, and it requires very little attention to get my fingers where they need to be. And that was after only practicing it for maybe 5 minutes.
Yay, thank you Bernard!
@ShiroKuro I'm glad it was helpful. Yay! Hopefully your teacher will be on board with it.
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@ShiroKuro I'm glad it was helpful. Yay! Hopefully your teacher will be on board with it.
@Bernard She was mostly on board. She sort of started out by saying that it's such a well-known piece and I might try to keep all five notes in the roll. But I said I didn't really want to strain just to get that, so she agreed to dropping a note. And she definitely agreed that the Db is the one to drop!
I'm working on this piece up through page three on my score, which is measure 34 (of 72) so I'm about halfway through it. I asked her what I should do for the next week of practice, whether I should focus of the first three pages or should I move ahead and work on parts that are new that I haven't looked at yet.
She said move ahead, so that was interesting to me.
I only have two more measures and then the key changes (for 8 measures before changing back). So I guess I should work on those two measures, and at least start the key change section.
I keep thinking I'm on the edge of giving up on this piece, and then something happens and it feels do-able... And then I realize that is total folly...
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I’m not near my piano (in Miami for a conference) but will chime in in a few days. I play that last chord real slow. I like how the C hits before the A, breaking the ‘trebleward’ roll a bit.
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Clair de Lune update…. So the rolled chord is now a non-issue since I decided to drop that Db (thanks again @bernard !)
But wow my progress is so slow with this piece! I am working through the first 4 pages so far, well not even, since I’m only up through the first two staves of page 4.
That’s after 6 weeks of (literally) daily practice on the piece.
I can only add maybe 2 to 4 new measures each week. At this rate it will take me another 4 months to get through to the end! And that’s not even getting up to tempo or polishing, that’s just working out fingerings and getting all the notes in my fingers.
That’s probably not how long it will take in actuality, but my teacher thinks I can play this for my jury — which is about two months away. There’s no way.
Fortunately, I’m working on two other pieces, and I think either would be fine for the jury. But it’s a little frustrating to me that she seems kind of clueless about what it means that I’m progressing so slowly through this piece. For the record, this is my new teacher at the music school, I’ve had 6 lessons with her so far. She’s a doctoral student in the piano program here, as was my teacher last year. But my last teacher and this teacher seem miles apart in terms of teaching experience. Anyway, this post wasn’t meant to be about the teacher…
So back to CdL… I feel like my rate of progress is a clear sign that this piece is too hard for me. With other pieces, I can move through an entire page in a week…
But could it just be a sign that my other pieces are too easy for me? Is this pace (2-4 measures of new music per week) how most people move through learning new music?
For comparison, one of other pieces I’m working on is Merry Christmas Mr Lawrence, by Ryuichi Sakamoto. The internet tells me it’s maybe a grade 6-7 piece, while CdL is grade 8. And compared to CdL, MCML almost feels easy, so obviously that’s part of it.
Anyway, part of the point of this post is to ask, is CdL too hard for me, or are my other pieces too easy?
The other point of the post is to say, my god, CdL is hard, but I’m going to keep working on it till I get to the end!
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BTW MCML has 5 flats, like CdL, but no key change. It has a section of five-fingered chords and a challenging ending. I’ve been working on it for three weeks and I’ve worked on every part of it except the last 8 measures. I’ll probably try to tackle that part tomorrow.
It’s really beautiful, if you’re curious:
Link to video
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Heh... It depends on how much you like/love a piece. CDL is one of the few pieces that even non-classical music lovers know and love. Even once you have all the notes down, there's a gestation period before you really get to work in the depth of the piece.
I think I spent forever learning the 1st Contrapunctus of Bach's Art of Fugue. It was a real slog through a tropical jungle with some swamps along the way. And a couple of years hence, I'm still learning from that journey - sorting out touch and tone issues that I didn't capture the first round. And it's only 3 pages long!!
Personally, I would keep at it, but perhaps down the intensity of your focus - just settle for a measure or 2 at a time. As for the jury, maybe take a stab at something easier - but I would encourage you to keep some effort on Clair de Lune.
Having said that, I know longer think about learning a major Beethoven Sonata. i prefer to learn a prelude, mazurka, song without words, waltz, Bach pieces - or recently, Standchen by Schubert/Liszt - still a relatively shorter piece.
Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
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Heh... It depends on how much you like/love a piece. CDL is one of the few pieces that even non-classical music lovers know and love. Even once you have all the notes down, there's a gestation period before you really get to work in the depth of the piece.
I think I spent forever learning the 1st Contrapunctus of Bach's Art of Fugue. It was a real slog through a tropical jungle with some swamps along the way. And a couple of years hence, I'm still learning from that journey - sorting out touch and tone issues that I didn't capture the first round. And it's only 3 pages long!!
Personally, I would keep at it, but perhaps down the intensity of your focus - just settle for a measure or 2 at a time. As for the jury, maybe take a stab at something easier - but I would encourage you to keep some effort on Clair de Lune.
Having said that, I know longer think about learning a major Beethoven Sonata. i prefer to learn a prelude, mazurka, song without words, waltz, Bach pieces - or recently, Standchen by Schubert/Liszt - still a relatively shorter piece.
Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
Heh... It depends on how much you like/love a piece. CDL is one of the few pieces that even non-classical music lovers know and love. Even once you have all the notes down, there's a gestation period before you really get to work in the depth of the piece.
Oh I’ll definitely keep working on it. I want to get through to the end, and then of course have that gestation period, or maybe I’ll just let it fall out of my fingers completely so I can come back to it in a year or so.
I just think it’s really interesting to observe these differences in rate of progress. I’ve been working on Merry Christmas Mr Lawrence for 3 weeks (half as long as CdL) and I’m working on about 96 measures (out of 104). Whereas in 6 weeks with CdL, I’m only up to measure 38 (out of 72).
Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
Thank you!
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Clair de Lune update…. So the rolled chord is now a non-issue since I decided to drop that Db (thanks again @bernard !)
But wow my progress is so slow with this piece! I am working through the first 4 pages so far, well not even, since I’m only up through the first two staves of page 4.
That’s after 6 weeks of (literally) daily practice on the piece.
I can only add maybe 2 to 4 new measures each week. At this rate it will take me another 4 months to get through to the end! And that’s not even getting up to tempo or polishing, that’s just working out fingerings and getting all the notes in my fingers.
That’s probably not how long it will take in actuality, but my teacher thinks I can play this for my jury — which is about two months away. There’s no way.
Fortunately, I’m working on two other pieces, and I think either would be fine for the jury. But it’s a little frustrating to me that she seems kind of clueless about what it means that I’m progressing so slowly through this piece. For the record, this is my new teacher at the music school, I’ve had 6 lessons with her so far. She’s a doctoral student in the piano program here, as was my teacher last year. But my last teacher and this teacher seem miles apart in terms of teaching experience. Anyway, this post wasn’t meant to be about the teacher…
So back to CdL… I feel like my rate of progress is a clear sign that this piece is too hard for me. With other pieces, I can move through an entire page in a week…
But could it just be a sign that my other pieces are too easy for me? Is this pace (2-4 measures of new music per week) how most people move through learning new music?
For comparison, one of other pieces I’m working on is Merry Christmas Mr Lawrence, by Ryuichi Sakamoto. The internet tells me it’s maybe a grade 6-7 piece, while CdL is grade 8. And compared to CdL, MCML almost feels easy, so obviously that’s part of it.
Anyway, part of the point of this post is to ask, is CdL too hard for me, or are my other pieces too easy?
The other point of the post is to say, my god, CdL is hard, but I’m going to keep working on it till I get to the end!
But wow my progress is so slow with this piece! I am working through the first 4 pages so far, well not even, since I’m only up through the first two staves of page 4.
That’s after 6 weeks of (literally) daily practice on the piece.
In my edition the CdL is six pages long. If yours is the same, you're over half way through. It would be worth checking to see how many more pages you have left in your edition.
Also, once you get past the "Calmata" section the material is similar to what you've already played. Not identical, but similar and maybe they'll go a bit easier than what you've already covered?
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