In Minneapolis

“Secretary Kristi Noem is an incompetent leader, a disgrace to our democracy, and I am impeaching her for obstruction of justice, violation of public trust, and self-dealing. Secretary Noem wreaked havoc in the Chicagoland area, and now, her rogue ICE agents have unleashed that same destruction in Minneapolis, fatally shooting Renee Nicole Good,” said Rep. Kelly. “From Chicago to Charlotte to Los Angeles to Minneapolis, Secretary Noem is violating the Constitution while ruining—and ending—lives, and separating families. It’s one thing to be incompetent and dangerous, but it’s impeachable to break the rule of law. I told my constituents and Chicagoans that I would fight against Secretary Noem’s agenda. This is me fighting back.”

AndyD

I haven't looked at all the links above and have posted my take on the awful incident on 'the other' forum.

Basically looks like the driver panicked, importantly...
failed to obey the Officer asking them to get stop and get out of the car, possibly causing him a hand injury while reversing as the Officer attempts to open the door.
The driver then...
drives forward towards another Officer who had drawn his weapon while the car reversed, and who then fires at the driver as the car lurches forward.

jon-nyc

At least two of his shots were after the bumper had moved beyond him Andy.

True she was on the wrong trying to leave the scene. But here cops can’t execute you for it.

jon-nyc

MAGA: “you better obey the police or else they can and should kill you at point blank range"

Also MAGA: "january 6th was pretty chill actually, they were just walking around, what's the big deal??"

wtg

Yea, it was far from a proportional response. Especially not for what amounts to a simple traffic violation.

Change the scenario a bit. Strip away the details that make this politically charged.

Police stop a teenager for having a burned out brake light. Kid takes off because he’s spooked. Would we ever imagine the right course of action would be to shoot him at point blank range?

She wasn’t the target of their immigration enforcement activities, she was just blocking the way. It’s not like any of the agents looked like they thought she was a threat. No one is crouching or approaching the car carefully. The guy who shot her came around the front of the car, the other guy walked over to the door and tried to open it and when he couldn’t he reached in to unlock it. They wanted her car out of there and she eventually started to move. They should have let her leave and if they wanted to pursue some kind of charges, simply note her license plate and deal with it later.

The guy who shot her had two choices: Shoot her or step aside. I think he was pissed off and lost his cool. I won’t be surprised if it turns out he’s one of the new recruits they’ve hired and that he doesn’t have much real law enforcement training.

The whole episode was unnecessary escalation and is a result of the administration-induced hysteria. Constant chaos and knee jerk reactions.

ShiroKuro

@wtg

the whole episode was unnecessary escalation and is a result of the administration-induced hysteria. Constant chaos and knee jerk reactions.

This exactly.

jon-nyc

I agree with everything except the simple traffic violation - that part isn’t clear to me. I don’t know why she was perpendicular to the road. If she had been trying to block them it would be more than a violation (though she was waving them by). If she was caught in the middle of a K turn then yeah, traffic violation.

AndyD

Why was she there? With her car like that?
Importantly, why disobey the direction of an armed law officer?
Why drive dangerously, probably injuring one officer, threatening another? Why attempt to flee the scene at high speed and about to endanger the public?
Why use her car as a weapon?
What was going through her mind for those few seconds?

Our UK Highway Code is very clear:
"You MUST obey" the directions and signals of law and traffic officers.

We had a young police office who was caught on a vehicle as it took off, dragged along some distance and died.
I have little sympathy for anyone who flaunts the law in this reckless way, endangers others, especially our law officers.

What does your driving test code say regarding directions given by law officers?

AndyD

A police officer is pointing a gun at you at near point blank range standing nearly right in front of your bonnet, and you put your foot on the gas?

After you've disobeyed instruction from another officer and reversed dangerously?

I'd expect to be shot!

Rontuner

A masked gunman, who is part of a law-breaking gang known for murder and kidnapping - not a police officer... That's quite a difference don't you think?

wtg

There are a lot of possible scenarios regarding what happened and there's a lot we can't know. One has to view the situation from the perspectives of all the people involved.

@AndyD said in In Minneapolis:

Why was she there? With her car like that?

The eyewitness in the MPR interview that I posted earlier seems to indicate that she was trying to block the street, basically as part of a reaction to ICE activities in her city. We had a lot of incidents like that in Chicago when they were here.

@AndyD said in In Minneapolis:

Why use her car as a weapon?

That assumes facts not in evidence and a particular intention on her part. She could have simply been leaving the scene.

@AndyD said in In Minneapolis:

Why attempt to flee the scene at high speed and about to endanger the public?

Again, facts not in evidence. And you might want to look at the video again. She's on a snow packed street and anyone who is used to driving on snow knows that you can't take off very fast in conditions like those.

And as for endangering the public, there were a lot of bystanders on the street. The ICE agent doing the shooting was potentially endangering them.

@AndyD said in In Minneapolis:

A police officer is pointing a gun at you at near point blank range standing nearly right in front of your bonnet

Has it been established that she even saw the agent in front of her car? What if she was distracted by the guy trying to open her door and was simply trying to leave?

If you check the video, the ICE agents get out of their vehicle and approach her car saying "get out of the fucking car" within seconds. They don't wait for a response. Ten seconds later she is dead.

@AndyD said in In Minneapolis:

What was going through her mind for those few seconds?

Good question and something to keep in mind. We are looking at that video from a completely different perspective than hers. Or the agents'.

BTW, these guys are not police officers. They are federal ICE agents. And a lot of them are newly hired. It is entirely possible that many of them do not have extensive law enforcement training that police get.
Our police are trained to de-escalate situations to try to get a proper outcome with the least risk to the parties involved. High speed police chases are called off if there is the sense that it is possible that innocent bystanders could get injured or killed.

Also, officers here typically approach a car from the rear, not from the side as the ICE agent did. And certainly not crossing in front if you think there is a threat.

His command to her was "get out of the fucking car". Pretty much any cop I know would have said "please get out of the car" or "we need you to move your car". The ICE agent escalated the temperature of the incident rather than reducing it. Fight or flight. We can't know which was triggered in her.

ICE has not been acting according to our generally accepted rules for engagement. Here's a recap of how some events played out here in Chicago:

https://www.chicagotribune.com/2026/01/07/feds-statements-after-minneapolis-driver-killed-by-ice-officer-echo-pattern-from-midway-blitz-in-chicago/

For me, it still comes down to the concept of proportional response and de-escalation techniques. Ten seconds from an order to exit, to dead, means something went terribly wrong.

wtg

And from that Minnesota Reformer link:

Minneapolis Police Chief Brian O’Hara said at a Wednesday press conference that they have yet to see information indicating that the shooting was justified

jon-nyc

It’s worth noting the ICE goon does not have blanket immunity from prosecution in Minnesota for manslaughter or murder.

AndyD

What will a jury think?

The problem now is 'we' know the driver was a wonderful saint-like local woman. Her actions however were less so.

The position she had placed her car was the start of the incident.
Her refusal to comply with law officers' request, however blunt and aggressively made, was an escalation; her dangerous, reckless and threatening driving in attempting to flee the scene completely unacceptable.
She's dead. Tragic.

I ask you:
If a law enforcement officer asks you to get out of the car, will you?
Are you required to obey?

His hand is on your door handle, will you reverse taking his hand and body with you? Then will you attempt to drive away without looking forward where you are going?

A moment of stupidity we all dread could happen.

wtg

@jon-nyc I didn't know that.

WTF-Beta

In Minneapolis