Payam Method for piano lessons
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I watched one of their promo videos and it was a bit of a turn off (but that doesn't mean they don't have a good method... for some students). It put me off because they were lying within the first 20 minutes. Piano in almost every other form is taught the same way as it was in Mozart's time, they stated. Come on. Do they think we aren't not going to notice how ridiculous that statement is? There's the Taubman method, Suzuki method, Alfred method, etc., etc., etc.
I taught myself when I was around 6 with a book one of my Aunts gave us, via a diagram that mapped the keys of the keyboard to the grand staff. That was it until my mid 20s.
I maintain that no one method is going to work for every one and the best approach is tailor made.
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I watched one of their promo videos and it was a bit of a turn off (but that doesn't mean they don't have a good method... for some students). It put me off because they were lying within the first 20 minutes. Piano in almost every other form is taught the same way as it was in Mozart's time, they stated. Come on. Do they think we aren't not going to notice how ridiculous that statement is? There's the Taubman method, Suzuki method, Alfred method, etc., etc., etc.
I taught myself when I was around 6 with a book one of my Aunts gave us, via a diagram that mapped the keys of the keyboard to the grand staff. That was it until my mid 20s.
I maintain that no one method is going to work for every one and the best approach is tailor made.
@Bernard said:
Piano in almost every other form is taught the same way as it was in Mozart's time, they stated.This seemed to be the most common criticism from piano teachers that I found online. Most people said that there are all kinds of new approaches to piano teaching that aim to make lessons fun and accessible for students, and that the Payam arguments are dated.
Anyway, I wish him and his method the best of luck.
Sometimes I think that playing an instrument is possibly one of the only truly AI-proof activities left (along with sports, dance), and I just think the world needs more piano students. I know, I know, that’s my bias though.
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@ShiroKuro Thank you, ShiroKuro.
I am going to take my post down. It accomplishes nothing. -
I think you'll find that bias pretty common here.
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Here come the rebuttals!!
This video is long (over 40 minutes) but I watched/listened to it while doing chores and it was quite interesting!
The TL;DR version: 60 Minutes failed at investigative journalism on this one, it was one big infomercial. The Payam Method is not just the Code.com guy backing it but also Mark Cuban, and the day after the segment aired, they announced their big product launch.
Gross.
Oh and that doesn’t even include all the piano-specific details that the video refutes. Nice!
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Here come the rebuttals!!
This video is long (over 40 minutes) but I watched/listened to it while doing chores and it was quite interesting!
The TL;DR version: 60 Minutes failed at investigative journalism on this one, it was one big infomercial. The Payam Method is not just the Code.com guy backing it but also Mark Cuban, and the day after the segment aired, they announced their big product launch.
Gross.
Oh and that doesn’t even include all the piano-specific details that the video refutes. Nice!
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I'm about half way through that video I posted and if it's the one SK is referring to, yeah I agree: gross.
One thing Meghan appears to have missed... when the Payam click shows 4 years of progress, the performers do not appear to be the same person in each clip, and the youngster in the first clip appears to be well under ten years old (like may 6 or 7?) and the 4th clip shows someone well into their teens. I think this is a little more sleight of hand.
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@wtg This one, maybe?
Link to video -
Here come the rebuttals!!
This video is long (over 40 minutes) but I watched/listened to it while doing chores and it was quite interesting!
The TL;DR version: 60 Minutes failed at investigative journalism on this one, it was one big infomercial. The Payam Method is not just the Code.com guy backing it but also Mark Cuban, and the day after the segment aired, they announced their big product launch.
Gross.
Oh and that doesn’t even include all the piano-specific details that the video refutes. Nice!
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Gross.
Why do you think it is gross?
Because it sounds like 60 Minutes and the Payam backers made a coordinated effort to do this big marketing push, the segment is disguised to look like one of their regular segments (which should be based on investigative journalism) but is actually just a big fat infomercial, all the while dissing the piano teaching profession in unfair ways and further contributing to the current view of learning and teaching as transactional, commercial endeavors.
I think that’s all pretty gross.
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disclaimer: I have no allegiance to the Payam Method; I just posted the 60 Minutes piece because it was about pianos!
It seems that we're morphing into fact checking...
I started to fact check Meghan's debunking about there being no real statistics about how many people quit after a year of starting lessons; she was questioning the 80 percent figure quoted by Payam. Apparently that's one of those statistics that is often repeated, but may not be really accurate. Such as the notion about having to drink 8 glasses of water a day.
Anyway, here is some info for anyone who is interested.
Another piano lesson site and their claim:
Why Kids Quit Piano Lessons: What Research Shows
Research from the University of Ottawa’s Piano Pedagogy Department revealed something surprising: nearly 80% of piano students quit within the first three years of lessons.They don't cite their source specifically, but I found this thesis from someone at the University of Ottawa that seems like it might be where they got their info:
Sometimes you have to fact check the fact checkers....
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Because it sounds like 60 Minutes and the Payam backers made a coordinated effort to do this big marketing push, the segment is disguised to look like one of their regular segments (which should be based on investigative journalism) but is actually just a big fat infomercial, all the while dissing the piano teaching profession in unfair ways and further contributing to the current view of learning and teaching as transactional, commercial endeavors.
I think that’s all pretty gross.
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I just registered for a 'fee' online lesson. Turns out there's a $75 deposit. If you continue the deposit is applied to your lessons. So what if I don't continue?
Sounds scammy.
“I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
― Douglas Adams -
disclaimer: I have no allegiance to the Payam Method; I just posted the 60 Minutes piece because it was about pianos!
It seems that we're morphing into fact checking...
I started to fact check Meghan's debunking about there being no real statistics about how many people quit after a year of starting lessons; she was questioning the 80 percent figure quoted by Payam. Apparently that's one of those statistics that is often repeated, but may not be really accurate. Such as the notion about having to drink 8 glasses of water a day.
Anyway, here is some info for anyone who is interested.
Another piano lesson site and their claim:
Why Kids Quit Piano Lessons: What Research Shows
Research from the University of Ottawa’s Piano Pedagogy Department revealed something surprising: nearly 80% of piano students quit within the first three years of lessons.They don't cite their source specifically, but I found this thesis from someone at the University of Ottawa that seems like it might be where they got their info:
Sometimes you have to fact check the fact checkers....
@wtg Although I suspect the drop out rate is high, the study you linked states,
While these fabled statistics appear frequently in informal pedagogical
discussions, there is very little data to support these opinions. Even among researchers, statistics regarding dropouts are often simply based on impressions ... [pages 3-4]Reading further on page 4, it's not surprising that a lot of dropping out occurs just before, or early into puberty.
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Yep. The 'deposit' is actually a fee. It's only free if you continue with more lessons.
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