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  4. Medicare to Require Prior Authorization Using AI

Medicare to Require Prior Authorization Using AI

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  • wtgW Offline
    wtgW Offline
    wtg
    wrote last edited by
    #2

    As @Steve-Miller said recently…What fresh hell is this???

    When the world wearies and society ceases to satisfy, there is always the garden - Minnie Aumônier

    1 Reply Last reply
    • AxtremusA Axtremus

      So, Medicare recipients, tell me how much you love this.

      https://www.nytimes.com/2025/08/28/health/medicare-prior-approval-health-care.html?unlocked_article_code=1.j08.OBSD.3D8TzvEfhIru

      Medicare Will Require Prior Approval for Certain Procedures

      The federal government plans to hire private companies to use artificial intelligence to determine whether patients would be covered for some procedures, like certain spine surgeries or steroid injections.

      ShiroKuroS Offline
      ShiroKuroS Offline
      ShiroKuro
      wrote last edited by
      #3

      @Axtremus said in Medicare to Require Prior Authorization Using AI:

      The federal government plans to hire private companies to use artificial intelligence to determine whether patients would be covered for some procedures, like certain spine surgeries or steroid injections.

      First of all, this is infuriating, and then there’s this:

      The A.I. companies selected to oversee the program would have a strong financial incentive to deny claims. Medicare plans to pay them a share of the savings generated from rejections.

      Add this to the growing list of evidence of the enshittification of America.

      1 Reply Last reply
      • P Offline
        P Offline
        pique
        wrote last edited by
        #4

        oh joy. I've been on Medicare for 2 years now and have really loved it. Plan G: pay your 257 dollar deductible and then not another penny for anything that year. Of course that can't last. We in America aren't allowed to have nice things.

        fear is the thief of dreams

        1 Reply Last reply
        • B Online
          B Online
          Bernard
          wrote last edited by
          #5

          F'ing around with Medicare is a sure way for them to lose power.

          The industrial revolution cheapened everything.

          1 Reply Last reply
          • MikM Offline
            MikM Offline
            Mik
            wrote last edited by
            #6

            I've been working on a project like this for a couple years now involving a private insurer. It's an excellent
            application of AI as long as there is a human-centric appeals process. It will make routine approvals instantaneous. My concern would be for the not-so-routine cases which are certain to occur, and I'm not crazy about hiring private companies to do it. The latter concern is due to one tech company I've been working with who has not met my expectations.

            “I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
            ― Douglas Adams

            ShiroKuroS 1 Reply Last reply
            👍
            • S Offline
              S Offline
              Steve Miller
              wrote last edited by
              #7

              Nothing good will come of this.

              1 Reply Last reply
              👍
              • MikM Mik

                I've been working on a project like this for a couple years now involving a private insurer. It's an excellent
                application of AI as long as there is a human-centric appeals process. It will make routine approvals instantaneous. My concern would be for the not-so-routine cases which are certain to occur, and I'm not crazy about hiring private companies to do it. The latter concern is due to one tech company I've been working with who has not met my expectations.

                ShiroKuroS Offline
                ShiroKuroS Offline
                ShiroKuro
                wrote last edited by ShiroKuro
                #8

                @Mik said in Medicare to Require Prior Authorization Using AI:

                It's an excellent application of AI as long as there is a human-centric appeals process.

                Is it safe to assume that by "human-centric," you that an appeal would quickly trigger the involvement of humans?

                It will make routine approvals instantaneous. My concern would be for the not-so-routine cases which are certain to occur, and I'm not crazy about hiring private companies to do it.

                I think this is the real problem, that private insurance companies have for the most part not acted in good faith and far too often just been an unnecessary road block between a patient and needed/justified medical care.

                (Edited to correct to “unnecessary”)

                1 Reply Last reply
                • Piano*DadP Offline
                  Piano*DadP Offline
                  Piano*Dad
                  wrote last edited by
                  #9

                  The problem is the incentives those humans face. When private companies get a percent of the value of the denials, denials will rise. Many people will not know how to contest or push back, and we can guess who those folks will be.

                  Crazy economist who likes to write about higher education.

                  1 Reply Last reply
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                  • MikM Offline
                    MikM Offline
                    Mik
                    wrote last edited by
                    #10

                    If done well it will take that human incentive out of the picture. I’ve found Medicare, at least traditional, to be very easy to deal with and they already have some automated approval set up. Part C is a different animal and brings the profit incentive back into the equation.

                    “I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
                    ― Douglas Adams

                    ShiroKuroS 1 Reply Last reply
                    • D Offline
                      D Offline
                      Daniel.
                      wrote last edited by Daniel.
                      #11

                      Systems like this aren't put in place for your benefit and iirc the opposite of benefit is detriment.

                      Incidentally, my CVS moved my Schedule IV refill from the 29th day where it has been for a year, to the 29th day, to 30th day, to the 31th day, without notice, and blamed it on the computer system.

                      I have none on the morning of the 31st day as I should, and have to rearrange my morning whichever day it falls no matter where else I have to be.

                      Each applicable day I was blamed for having the wrong day after making the effort to be there and told to leave.

                      One day they say the computer system is, "just the system."

                      The next they insist they have to defer to the, "system."

                      They can't do their job with professionalism and compassion.

                      Being drug enforcement agents after the Doctors refused has led to some very unsavory characters with a sadistic streak.

                      And people can't understand why I have a visceral dislike of these petit tyrants, with an insufferable attitude, who can't or won't provide federal and state or policy guidelines for what they are doing.

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      • MikM Mik

                        If done well it will take that human incentive out of the picture. I’ve found Medicare, at least traditional, to be very easy to deal with and they already have some automated approval set up. Part C is a different animal and brings the profit incentive back into the equation.

                        ShiroKuroS Offline
                        ShiroKuroS Offline
                        ShiroKuro
                        wrote last edited by
                        #12

                        @Mik said in Medicare to Require Prior Authorization Using AI:

                        If done well

                        What reason is there to think it will be done well? This could be taken as snark and as a sincere question.

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • MikM Offline
                          MikM Offline
                          Mik
                          wrote last edited by
                          #13

                          Because federal computer systems have done little but improve in the last 10 years or so, especially citizen-facing applications. It would, however, be interesting to see the discussions and the written goals leading up to this.

                          “I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
                          ― Douglas Adams

                          ShiroKuroS 1 Reply Last reply
                          • D Offline
                            D Offline
                            Daniel.
                            wrote last edited by
                            #14

                            And this is IV. There is no V.

                            No matter. They have their little Sheriff's badge (literally-- I've seen it).

                            My pick up record is perfect.

                            On the other hand, it was CVS which got massively sued in Florida for conspiring with pill mills.

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            • AxtremusA Offline
                              AxtremusA Offline
                              Axtremus
                              wrote last edited by Axtremus
                              #15

                              About that "if done well" question, @Mik if you don't mind opining more ...

                              1. For "routine approvals," does AI do better (lower error rate, faster, cheaper) compare to rule-based automated systems?

                              2. Does the AI also spits out explanation/rationale for its decision to approve or reject an authorization request?

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              • MikM Offline
                                MikM Offline
                                Mik
                                wrote last edited by
                                #16

                                I think it is able to consider more factors and ask better questions without them being hard-coded than a simple rules-based software, and yes, the stuff I have seen produces a better explanation in plain language. Whether these improvements materialize in this case remains to be seen.

                                “I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
                                ― Douglas Adams

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                • MikM Mik

                                  Because federal computer systems have done little but improve in the last 10 years or so, especially citizen-facing applications. It would, however, be interesting to see the discussions and the written goals leading up to this.

                                  ShiroKuroS Offline
                                  ShiroKuroS Offline
                                  ShiroKuro
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #17

                                  @Mik said in Medicare to Require Prior Authorization Using AI:

                                  federal computer systems

                                  I don't think "done well" depends on the computer systems (because you're right, the systems are getting better and better). I think it depends on the people involved.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  • K Offline
                                    K Offline
                                    kluurs
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #18

                                    Yeah, but remember there's financial incentives for some health care people to order more tests, do procedures and use the higher priced drugs for a kickback - so there is a need on the other side to try and sort that out. The "done right" part for human intervention will be critical. My spouse's bout with cancer has helped to showcase how thoughtless the first round of review can be -whether AI or human.

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    👍
                                    • MikM Offline
                                      MikM Offline
                                      Mik
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #19

                                      Good observation.

                                      “I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
                                      ― Douglas Adams

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      • Piano*DadP Offline
                                        Piano*DadP Offline
                                        Piano*Dad
                                        wrote last edited by Piano*Dad
                                        #20

                                        No system will satisfy everyone. We're trying to balance the cost effectiveness of treatment against the "flat of the curve" approach most physicians and patients want. If you're not familiar with the flat of the curve argument, it's an inherent problem in 3rd party payer systems like ours.

                                        Patients pay a co-pay and have out of pocket caps, so once they're done with those the marginal out of pocket cost of more treatment is zero. The incentive, then, is to push till the marginal benefit of treatment is zero as well. That's privately good but socially bad. Society pays the high marginal cost (to doctors, pharmacies, and hospitals) for further -- often useless -- treatments. Doctors and patients are essentially in cahoots against the 3rd party payer (insurers, including the government via medicaid and medicare). This is why we have these reviews. It's an expensive attempt at finding the right balance where the marginal cost of the treatment (to society) is close to the marginal benefit. (to the patient).

                                        A good system should err on the side of treatment, within reason. United Health suggests that the erring is often on the other side, especially if the patient has little free choice (competition) and even less information.

                                        I can see a case for AI in the first round because that should save money by letting a lot of humans whose jobs are mechanical find more productive employment. But the AI is only as good as the incentives of the people programming how it evaluates cases.

                                        And speaking of AI, Google's AI does a very thorough job of explaining the flat of the curve argument in a healthcare system with 3rd party payers... 😊

                                        Crazy economist who likes to write about higher education.

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        • MikM Offline
                                          MikM Offline
                                          Mik
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #21

                                          Gemini is what I use most often. It’s very good at simplifying complex technical issues. It even knows a lot more about Epic than Epic would like it to. 😆

                                          “I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
                                          ― Douglas Adams

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