Watching the debate?

[ShiroKuro]

gift link
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/28/opinion/joe-biden-tom-friedman.html?unlocked_article_code=1.3E0.tR6a.INFqSrKYbvKh&smid=url-share

[ShiroKuro]

@Rontuner said in Watching the debate?:

Vote for an old guy, or an old criminal who surrounds himself with criminals?

I mean, I agree with you. But this doesn't represent the total set of choices, which is:

1. Vote for an old
2. Vote for an old criminal
3. Don't vote, or write in some random person

This race will be decided as much by people choosing #3 as by those who choose the other options.

The students who protested on campuses in May and June are most likely going to choose #3. People on the fence about Biden who can't stand Trump will choose #3...

This is where I am coming from. I don't think we can win those folks over with the "Biden is better than Trump" argument.

Also, I am not worried about what would happen for the next four years if Biden gets elected. I am terrified of the thought that Biden could have a health event or something just before the election. Say in mid-October. And then what will happen?

He needs to withdraw, and he needs to do it now.

[CHAS]

Krugman wants Biden to drop out.
https://www.alternet.org/paul-krugman-biden-trump/?utm_source=Iterable&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Jun.28.2024_9.06pm

[ShiroKuro]

Yep, him and a lot of others!

[wtg]

The Dems are doing today what the Republicans had the courage to do during Watergate, namely to tell their party's president that it's time to call it quits. Not resign in this case, but to withdraw as the nominee.

If only the GOP had the courage in 2020 to do what they did back then. The country would be in a much better place.

[Rontuner]

I disagree. Biden hasn't done anything close to Watergate. Yikes.

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/4745539-fetterman-defends-biden-debate-performance/

"Sen. John Fetterman (D-Pa.), who survived his own disastrous debate performance ahead of the 2022 election, told fellow Democrats to “chill the f‑‑‑ out” after media outlets reported Democrats are panicking over President Biden’s weak showing at Thursday’s debate against former President Trump."

[wtg]

Goodness no, I'm not saying he did anything like Watergate; I went back and read what I posted and am surprised that interpretation came up. Biden hasn't "done" anything; he is simply suffering from the inexorable march of cognitive decline. And that means he no longer has the skills to run the country.

In my previous post, I was merely referring to a point in history, one when a political party, the GOP at that time, had the courage to deliver bad news. I think that's what Dems are doing now. I guess I can see that for some folks it might be viewed as a betrayal of a good man who has devoted his life to public service. I can understand that, but in this case I strongly feel someone needs to deliver a difficult message to him.

I was also pointing out that today's GOP did not exhibit that same courage in standing up to Trump after he left office. They made some noises right after January 6th but it didn't take more than a few weeks for some of them to go crawling back to him. With very few exceptions, the rest followed suit over time.

I saw that article about Fetterman. His perspective is strongly colored by his personal experience of recovery, but his situation and Biden's are apples and oranges. He had a specific medical event and he was in his early 50s when he had his stroke. The possibility of a recovery was definitely there.

Biden is showing progressive cognitive decline that has a completely different origin. There's no way it will be reversed. Over the course of three years I spent hours nearly every day among people with cognitive problems and watched dozens of them as their problems got worse. Not a single one got better.

Will he have days when he is better than others? Absolutely. But his decline over four years is evident . Here he is in the first debate against Trump in 2020:

Link to video

@Rontuner -I'd like to ask -- what would your reaction have been if it was the GOP candidate who spoke as Biden did during last night's debate?

[ShiroKuro]

Yikes, comparing that 2020 one with yesterday’s is heartbreaking.

@Rontuner you already know that I agree with @wtg, Biden is in decline and that presents a serious danger for our country, and in fact the entire world. Leadership in the Democratic Party needs to show courage here, to work on convincing Joe to withdraw, before it’s too late.

If he doesn’t withdraw soon, then you’re right, Ron, we will all need to get behind him. But in that case, I will be holding my breath until Nov. 5th, because I think he is in very precarious condition.

[Steve Miller]

@CHAS

These talking heads are making me crazy.

Who does he suggest as an alternative?

[Cindysphinx]

@Steve-Miller

Gretchen Whitmer.

[Axtremus]

Sen. Fetterman might know a thing or two about surviving disastrous debate performance ahead of an election …

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/4745539-fetterman-defends-biden-debate-performance/

[ShiroKuro]

Fetterman is close to 30 years younger than Biden, it's not comparable.

[wtg]

edit: I had found an MSN version of the WSJ article, but they've gotten clever and now the MSN link just bounces to the paywalled WSJ site. Sorry.

Edit2: now it looks like I can see the WSJ article on MSN via my iPad.

Original post:

Annie Linskey was on Smerconish this morning; she's one of the co-authors of this WSJ article. European leaders have apparently been concerned for some time about Biden.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/the-world-saw-biden-deteriorating-democrats-ignored-the-warnings/ar-BB1p5Cov

And as much as I didn't think that Robert Hur should have put his observations about Biden in the special counsel's report, it's becoming more and more clear that people who have been in direct contact with Biden have observed things that are concerning.

[wtg]

Behind the scenes.

Forget the pundits. Ignore New York Times editorials and columnists. Tune out people popping off on X.

The only way President Biden steps aside, despite his debate debacle, is if the same small group of lifelong loyalists who enabled his run suddenly — and shockingly — decides it's time for him to call it quits.

Why it matters: Dr. Jill Biden; his younger sister, Valerie Biden; and 85-year-old Ted Kaufman, the president's longtime friend and constant adviser — plus a small band of White House advisers — are the only Biden deciders.

This decades-long kitchen cabinet operates as an extended family, council of elders and governing oligarchy. These allies alone hold sway over decisions big and small in Biden's life and presidency.

The president engaged in no organized process outside his family in deciding to run for a second term, the N.Y. Times' Peter Baker reports.

Then Biden alone made the decision, people close to him tell us.

https://www.axios.com/2024/06/29/biden-debate-replace-advisers

[ShiroKuro]

@wtg said in Watching the debate?:

it's becoming more and more clear that people who have been in direct contact with Biden have observed things that are concerning.

This is my concern, that he's declining more than we know, and/or that he could have a sudden, more serious decline before the election.

@wtg said in Watching the debate?:

The only way President Biden steps aside, despite his debate debacle, is if the same small group of lifelong loyalists who enabled his run suddenly — and shockingly — decides it's time for him to call it quits.

Makes sense.... hopefully someone in that inner circle wakes up, and fast.

[Rontuner]

Jack Schlossberg video

Trying to post an instagram link here. Does this work?

[wtg]

@wtg said in Watching the debate?:

edit: I had found an MSN version of the WSJ article, but they've gotten clever and now the MSN link just bounces to the paywalled WSJ site. Sorry.
Edit2: now it looks like I can see the WSJ article on MSN via my iPad..

Original post:

Annie Linskey was on Smerconish this morning; she's one of the co-authors of this WSJ article. European leaders have apparently been concerned for some time about Biden.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/the-world-saw-biden-deteriorating-democrats-ignored-the-warnings/ar-BB1p5Cov

And as much as I didn't think that Robert Hur should have put his observations about Biden in the special counsel's report, it's becoming more and more clear that people who have been in direct contact with Biden have observed things that are concerning.

If you can’t get to the article, here’s the clip of the Smerconish interview with Linskey, in which she talks about concerns about Biden that came up among European leaders and diplomats, and also Democrats who have interacted with Biden behind the scenes.

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/politics/2024/06/29/smr-biden-had-shown-signs-of-slipping.cnn

[wtg]

@Rontuner said in Watching the debate?:

Jack Schlossberg video

Trying to post an instagram link here. Does this work?

Yes, I was able to see it.

[CHAS]

@Steve-Miller
Have done a 180 myself. Biden's debate team should be fired.
Trump spewed lies like a fire hose for 90 minutes.
Will take the old, stutterer over Trump anytime.
Krugman spoke too soon. He mentioned no one to take Biden's place.

[Rontuner]

The real problem here is that Biden (and most Democrats) treat these meetings like debates, while Trump (and most Republicans) treat them like paid commercials...