Watching the debate?
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Yikes, comparing that 2020 one with yesterday’s is heartbreaking.
@Rontuner you already know that I agree with @wtg, Biden is in decline and that presents a serious danger for our country, and in fact the entire world. Leadership in the Democratic Party needs to show courage here, to work on convincing Joe to withdraw, before it’s too late.
If he doesn’t withdraw soon, then you’re right, Ron, we will all need to get behind him. But in that case, I will be holding my breath until Nov. 5th, because I think he is in very precarious condition.
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Gretchen Whitmer.
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Sen. Fetterman might know a thing or two about surviving disastrous debate performance ahead of an election …
https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/4745539-fetterman-defends-biden-debate-performance/
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Fetterman is close to 30 years younger than Biden, it's not comparable.
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edit: I had found an MSN version of the WSJ article, but they've gotten clever and now the MSN link just bounces to the paywalled WSJ site. Sorry.
Edit2: now it looks like I can see the WSJ article on MSN via my iPad.
Original post:
Annie Linskey was on Smerconish this morning; she's one of the co-authors of this WSJ article. European leaders have apparently been concerned for some time about Biden.
And as much as I didn't think that Robert Hur should have put his observations about Biden in the special counsel's report, it's becoming more and more clear that people who have been in direct contact with Biden have observed things that are concerning.
When the world wearies and society ceases to satisfy, there is always the garden - Minnie Aumônier
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Behind the scenes.
Forget the pundits. Ignore New York Times editorials and columnists. Tune out people popping off on X.
The only way President Biden steps aside, despite his debate debacle, is if the same small group of lifelong loyalists who enabled his run suddenly — and shockingly — decides it's time for him to call it quits.
Why it matters: Dr. Jill Biden; his younger sister, Valerie Biden; and 85-year-old Ted Kaufman, the president's longtime friend and constant adviser — plus a small band of White House advisers — are the only Biden deciders.
This decades-long kitchen cabinet operates as an extended family, council of elders and governing oligarchy. These allies alone hold sway over decisions big and small in Biden's life and presidency.
The president engaged in no organized process outside his family in deciding to run for a second term, the N.Y. Times' Peter Baker reports.
Then Biden alone made the decision, people close to him tell us.
https://www.axios.com/2024/06/29/biden-debate-replace-advisers
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@wtg said in Watching the debate?:
it's becoming more and more clear that people who have been in direct contact with Biden have observed things that are concerning.
This is my concern, that he's declining more than we know, and/or that he could have a sudden, more serious decline before the election.
@wtg said in Watching the debate?:
The only way President Biden steps aside, despite his debate debacle, is if the same small group of lifelong loyalists who enabled his run suddenly — and shockingly — decides it's time for him to call it quits.
Makes sense.... hopefully someone in that inner circle wakes up, and fast.
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Trying to post an instagram link here. Does this work?
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@wtg said in Watching the debate?:
edit: I had found an MSN version of the WSJ article, but they've gotten clever and now the MSN link just bounces to the paywalled WSJ site. Sorry.
Edit2: now it looks like I can see the WSJ article on MSN via my iPad..Original post:
Annie Linskey was on Smerconish this morning; she's one of the co-authors of this WSJ article. European leaders have apparently been concerned for some time about Biden.
And as much as I didn't think that Robert Hur should have put his observations about Biden in the special counsel's report, it's becoming more and more clear that people who have been in direct contact with Biden have observed things that are concerning.
If you can’t get to the article, here’s the clip of the Smerconish interview with Linskey, in which she talks about concerns about Biden that came up among European leaders and diplomats, and also Democrats who have interacted with Biden behind the scenes.
https://edition.cnn.com/videos/politics/2024/06/29/smr-biden-had-shown-signs-of-slipping.cnn
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@Rontuner said in Watching the debate?:
Trying to post an instagram link here. Does this work?
Yes, I was able to see it.
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@Steve-Miller
Have done a 180 myself. Biden's debate team should be fired.
Trump spewed lies like a fire hose for 90 minutes.
Will take the old, stutterer over Trump anytime.
Krugman spoke too soon. He mentioned no one to take Biden's place. -
The real problem here is that Biden (and most Democrats) treat these meetings like debates, while Trump (and most Republicans) treat them like paid commercials...
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@Rontuner yes, that’s a good point.
Still, as I think about it, I think the real problem is 1) it probably is too late for Biden to step down, and therefore 2) we all need to get behind him and move forward and try to win this election, but 3) the media likes to report on problems and bad news, and they may not be able to switch away from calling for him to withdraw and focus on the issues.
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BTW my above comments were inspired by my mother, and she gave me permission to share a comment she made in a group chat she and I are in with some of her friends. (For the record, they’re all dems, and she’s very left, probably even more than me)
SK’s mom:
In addition to the impact that the inherently conservative effect of the electoral college, there is no doubt in my mind that The NY Times was a key factor in Hillary losing the 2016 election (with a plurality of votes). The NYT’s unrelenting coverage of her emails and the uncritical reporting on Trump’s appeal and showmanship were worth millions of dollars of campaign advertising for Trump. Case in point, media coverage of what Biden’s administration has accomplished - domestically and internationally - is not “news-worthy,” and not the focus today. Reports and opinion writers’ focus is and will remain on whether Biden should stay in the race, the issue will not go away, until it is no longer “news-worthy.“ Biden’s age is an issue that is easy to cover and for voters to immediately understand; and, it’s controversial and easily draws attention to what the national media report in print and online, which are key sources, if not the main source, for online commentary, TV news and right-wing radio, that 20/7 noise for all things alt-right. While there are critics of how the main media sources cover elections, they are not as “loud” as what’s online and on the screen. Frankly, I think Biden has already lost the election, his successful time in the presidency will not matter, and the question is not can he beat Trump it is whether will he step down or let Trump win.
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So it may be too late, but we — and the liberal and centrist media — probably really need to shift messaging to focus on calling out Trump…
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I think that where some of us differ on this is that we don't view Biden's performance at the debate as a one-off, something he can shake off. Biden had no business running for the nomination in the first place and he no longer has the skills to be President. He will have bad days and good days but I stand firm in my position that he is not the person he was even four years ago, and that he will never be.
This is not the media's fault. They were all over the Access Hollywood tape and it didn't make a damn bit of difference to the Trump supporters. Hillary took the swing states for granted and didn't campaign there, so she and her campaign team must take responsibility for that. Those states are where she lost the election.
The coverage of the first Trump administration was relentless. If anything, Biden has gotten a pass from left-leaning media, which has either explained away or ignored his decline over the course of his presidency.
We are a divided country and every race is a close race. Trump never had the skill set needed to be president but he got elected once anyway. Half the country voted for him in 2016 and they will vote for him again in 2024 for many of the same reasons that Dems like myself will vote for Biden if he is the candidate, even if we don't think he's a good choice for the job. It's a choice between bad and worse and for many voters, they fear the other guy more than they fear their own.
I will vote for the Dem candidate, including Biden, no matter what, because I believe they have the best interests of the country at heart and I think another Trump administration is a huge risk to the country.
This was always going to be a tight race and in one sense, nothing has changed. I understand that the mechanics of replacing Biden are complicated and that it would be a risky endeavor to attempt it, but there's part of me that wonders if the Dems had a candidate that was the least bit competent (and one would think that would pretty easy to do given the choices we currently have), it would attract the voters who are on the fence about what to do.
And of course Biden would need to withdraw voluntarily. Removing him by force, if you will, would be a disaster.
We certainly live in interesting times.
When the world wearies and society ceases to satisfy, there is always the garden - Minnie Aumônier
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@wtg said in Watching the debate?:
I think that where some of us differ on this is that we don't view Biden's performance at the debate as a one-off, something he can shake off. Biden had no business running for the nomination in the first place and he no longer has the skills to be President. He will have bad days and good days but I stand firm in my position that he is not the person he was even four years ago, and that he will never be.
I agree with this. As you said, if he's on the ticket, he has my vote. But I don't want him on the ticket.
This is not the media's fault.
I don't think they're solely to blame, but they can either help or hurt, and how this is reported in the coming days and weeks will have an important impact.
I understand that the mechanics of replacing Biden are complicated and that it would be a risky endeavor to attempt it, but there's part of me that wonders if the Dems had a candidate that was the least bit competent (and one would think that would pretty easy to do given the choices we currently have), it would attract the voters who are on the fence about what to do.
I think getting someone else on the ticket could motivate a lot of people who might otherwise stay home.
And of course Biden would need to withdraw voluntarily. Removing him by force, if you will, would be a disaster.
Yep, this is the big thing.
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Biden looked great at the SOTU. The debate not so much but he didn’t lie, he didn’t threaten his enemies, and he hasn’t been convicted of felonies.
Let’s move on.
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but he didn’t lie
He did misspeak. A bunch of times.
