A previously unknown (to me) form of reflux
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Yea, he might want to at least experiment with stopping the lemon water and see what happens. I could never do the stuff out of the bottle; it always made my tummy grouchy, even when I was a kid. I was buying fresh lemons and squeezing a small wedge into my tea. But I think a steady diet of it was a tipping point, at least for me. I also suspect having my gallbladder out changed my overall digestion and coupled with ingesting more acidity with the lemon was just too much for my system.
One thing with a high acidity that surprised me was Coca-Cola. It's more acidic than lemon juice. Couple that with the carbonation and it's a stomach buster. I don't drink it very often, maybe a few times a year, so it's no big deal to avoid it. And I'm not an orange juice drinker either. I am missing my fresh citrus. This is the season for it.
I was already limiting pickled foods because of their sodium content. Now I've had to give up pretty much all vinegar (goodbye vinaigrettes!), at least for a while. So often it's a matter of just experimenting and figuring out how to balance things. I have definitely observed that there are things that I can no longer eat or drink as I've gotten older. This is just another chapter in the "wtg gets older" story.
When the world wearies and society ceases to satisfy, there is always the garden - Minnie Aumônier
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@wtg said in A previously unknown (to me) form of reflux:
Yea, he might want to at least experiment with stopping the lemon water and see what happens. I could never do the stuff out of the bottle
Yikes. He has been squirting this into his water for a while now.... and at the same time, just yesterday he was saying "I don't know why these stomach problems are so persistent right now"
I just messaged him "no more lemon water starting now, I'll explain later"
He doesn't drink coke, fortunately, and stopped all sweetened beverages when they told him he's prediabetic.
But given his off and on stomach issues, we need to pay more attention to acidic things I think.
I wonder how acidic the Japanese "pickles" are that he likes -- they're not really pickles,and not made from cucumbers, but I would guess since they're "pickled" they have vinegar? He will know...
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There are a bunch of foods that are known to be triggers for a lot of people. Coffee, chocolate, vinegar, tomatoes (esp canned tomato products like sauces), pickled foods (most of which use a lot of salt and vinegar for pickling), alcohol, citrus, high fat/fried foods, onions (especially raw), black and cayenne pepper.
https://www.refluxgate.com/lpr/diet/core-guide
I think I remember our @RealPlayer said that he had to give up his tea because it was a reflux trigger for him. I had to give up green tea a long time ago, but black tea doesn't seem to be a problem.
It's one big experiment. Something that can be helpful is to do a quasi-elimination diet. Take out all the things that are known triggers for a lot of people, keep the diet simple and don't introduce a lot of new items. Watch for a week or two and see how he feels. If he improves, then add in one of the trigger items and see what happens. And keep doing that.
I also think that he may find that he can occasionally have one of the foods that can be a trigger, but that it's a treat and not part of his regular diet.
When the world wearies and society ceases to satisfy, there is always the garden - Minnie Aumônier
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@wtg said in A previously unknown (to me) form of reflux:
There are a bunch of foods that are known to be triggers for a lot of people. Coffee, chocolate, vinegar, tomatoes (esp canned tomato products like sauces), pickled foods (most of which use a lot of salt and vinegar for pickling), alcohol, citrus, high fat/fried foods, onions (especially raw), black and cayenne pepper.
Thanks for this! (and the link)
Mr SK has been dealing with stomach stuff for years, and made various changes at various times.... And then he has ups and downs. And since the pre-diabetic diagnosis, he's been changing things up, like add the lemon water.So now is a good to revisit the question of reflux triggers!
he may find that he can occasionally have one of the foods that can be a trigger, but that it's a treat and not part of his regular diet.
Yep.
And that's the thing with the lemon water. He went from never drinking that, to suddenly drinking it every day.
So that's an easy elimination, for starters!
What about decaf coffee? Is it the coffee, or the caffeine? He has a cup of decaf every morning.
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Same here with lemon. I basically never had any and went to having a couple of afternoon cups of decaf tea with honey and lemon. Tipping point.
Decaf coffee may be tolerable even if you have GERD.
https://www.livestrong.com/article/511107-how-to-neutralize-the-acid-in-coffee/
The thing to keep in mind that the diet guidelines are just guidelines. Some things on the list may be a trigger for Mr SK, and he may be totally fine eating things that are on the list.
FWIW, I still have a cup of half-caff in the morning. It's the one obvious thing on the GERD diet no-nos that I haven't given up. If I weren't improving, I would definitely be switching to decaf, or even eliminating any coffee from my diet, but I think I'm good for now. Maybe the lemon was Mr SK's tipping point, too, and if his system has a reprieve, it may recover.
I hesitated initially posting about my minor health issue, but I thought there might be people here who might want to know about the alginates. Now I feel better about the thread, as it may be of some value to someone else!
When the world wearies and society ceases to satisfy, there is always the garden - Minnie Aumônier
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@AdagioM Here's a great discussion about PPIs, H2 blockers, and alginates for GERD and LPR. A professional bulletin from the American Academy of Otolaryngology–Head and Neck Surgery
https://bulletin.entnet.org/clinical-patient-care/article/22879164/are-alginates-all-that
I'm in the LPR camp and I'm one of the patients who would not want to go on a PPI or H2 blocker because of my concerns re long term side effects. My mom was on them for years and developed dementia. I've wondered how much they might have contributed to her condition.
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@wtg said in A previously unknown (to me) form of reflux:
I hesitated initially posting about my minor health issue, but I thought there might be people here who might want to know about the alginates. Now I feel better about the thread, as it may be of some value to someone else!
Absolutely!!! I ordered that canadian gaviscon last night.
And even though I "knew" that citrus is acidic, and I knew that Mr SK was doing this lemon water thing, I knew even thought about the connection to reflux.
So THANK YOU!!!!!
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Serendipity, eh?
Be sure to read the bulletin I just posted. It is hands down the best summary I've read so far, and being from the American Academy of Otolaryngology–Head and Neck Surgery, it carries a lot of credibility in my book as being solid medical information.
The Reflux Gourmet product (discussed in the link) is available, too. People had mixed reactions to the taste, and it's not cheap, either. I went with the Canadian Gaviscon tablets and have been happy with the results, but if I couldn't get them I'd definitely check out the Reflux Gourmet.
I hadn't heard about RefluxRaft, and that is another alternative. Doesn't get great review on Amazon, though.
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And just a heads up...be sure to have Mr SK chew up the tablet really well before swallowing it. Won't do anything if it's in chunks! Also, should avoid food and drink for a couple of hours afterward. The raft can stay in place until the food in the stomach has mostly digested.
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Gaviscon brand is expensive here in the UK. Luckily Asda, Tesco, Morrisons etc. sell their own versions at half the price.
Whether any or all of these have effects on body salt balances I don't know; a while back I recall magnesium trisilicate being the one medically recommended.
Seems to be rarely available here, mostly in tablet form, and you need to ask for it.Gaviscon is everywhere!
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I sent this thread to Mr. AM, who found it very interesting. He checked on drug interactions with Gaviscon, and there were several for things he takes. Double check before you decide to buy. He also mentioned problems with citrus fruits and juices, so be aware of that, too.
Good luck to all y’all refluxers!
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We make less acid as we age. A Naturopath told me to try a tablespoon of vinegar before meals. I drink half a glass of not cold water with the meal, more water would dilute the acid. I have been doing much better since I started it. Once in a while I take a Gaviscon with alginate. Otherwise I take apple cider vinegar or a betaine hydrochloride tablet before every meal. Have been riding a bicycle and getting out and doing things since I started the practice.
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I called Gaviscon Canada today. I try to limit sodium and wanted to have a better idea of how much I might be taking in while I'm taking the Canadian Gaviscon. I knew there was some sodium carbonate in the tablets but the amount wasn't listed on the label, so I couldn't calculate an approximate sodium content.
Final answer:
Regular strength: 22.6 mg sodium per tablet
Extra strength: 29.95 mg
Max Relief: 34 mgI can live with those numbers with the number of tablets I'm using daily.
I asked why the alginate products aren't available in the US. He said that the US Gaviscon is made by a company called Haleon, and that the Canadian Gaviscon is produced by a completely separate company that is only licensed to sell and market in Canada.
I had looked at the various Gaviscon products that show up on various sites. They all have different formulas. Some have aluminum or magnesium, some have potassium carbonate instead of sodium carbonate, and I saw different sweeteners, too. Sugar, aspartame, and saccharin.
With these GI and ENT docs developing their own alginate product lines, I wonder how long it will take Haleon to launch one here. Clearly there seems to be a market developing for it. The US Gaviscon does list alginic acid as an inactive ingredient in their product but from the anecdotal stories I've heard, people haven't had as good results with the US product because there isn't enough of it to form a good raft. Plus the US product has magnesium and aluminum and people often try to avoid aluminum.
Your useless facts for the day!
When the world wearies and society ceases to satisfy, there is always the garden - Minnie Aumônier
