Question for Streve and everyone
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I don't care if they are real. You do not have to play the game, but you have to be willing to walk. I research and test drive, decide what I want, determine a fair price plus tax and registration, and offer that. It goes like this: "I will write you a check today for $XXXXX.XX and I drive it off the lot.". Their only answer is yes or no. Anything else and I walk out. Now they might have to check with their sales manager and I'll give them that, but the only answer is yes or no. If it's not yes we have a deal, then it's no. I do take into account that they have to make a living too so I don't lowball them too badly. Also go at the end of the month.
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We have owned both Toyotas and Hondas and have had consistently better luck with the Toyotas. Of course the last Toyota we bought was a 2003 Sienna minivan.
Well, I take that back...my mom bought a 2009 Camry and I drove it occasionally for the short time she owned it.Besides having fewer mechanical issues with the Toyotas, we also consistently found their seats to be more comfortable. The Hondas had a very firm flat seat and seatback. I'm 5' 10" and have long legs, and the Honda had less thigh support. I found that driving our Prelude and my mom's Accord for long distances left me with a sore back.
OTOH, the Toyotas had more comfortable seats. Better lumbar support, and they just felt more comfortable to sit in. No back issues on long trips. Doesn't sound like you're looking at Subaru, but we found the Subaru to have seats that are very similar to the Toyota.
If you think you may have back seat passengers, be sure to try out the back seat to see how comfortable it is to get in and out of, and how much legroom it has. Our Ford Explorer had fabulous front seats and the most miserable back seats ever. My friend had a Honda Element and the back seats were awful, even for short trips.
Also listen for road noise. This is easier to observe at higher speeds, like on a highway.
Handling. The Hondas we owned had a much firmer ride and tighter handling; you could take corners and exit ramps at a nice clip and the car always felt like it was on rails. The Toyota ride was softer and the handling a bit looser. Still good, but just different. Again, on long trips we think the Toyotas were less fatiguing because you didn't feel all those bumps you tended to notice in the Hondas.
One thing I didn't like about the 2009 Camry were the roof pillars. For whatever reason they seemed to obscure key viewing areas, both when I looked through the front window and when I looked through the back. That car didn't have a backup camera so I still had to turn to look out the back window (I don't use just mirrors to back up), and it felt like a struggle.
As I said, my experiences with both of these manufacturers goes back a ways and both manufacturers have gone through a lot of design changes, so they may not apply.
Just for reference, here are the cars we have owned:
1978 Datsun B210
1978 Datsun 280Z
1981 Honda Accord
1986 Honda Prelude
1987 Toyota Camry wagon
1993 Ford Explorer
1996 Geo Prizm
1997 Ford Windstar
1999 Lexus ES300
2003 Toyota Sienna
2016 Subaru OutbackI'm sure there are others here who have more recent experiences with car buying, so pay more attention to them than me!
Good luck.
When the world wearies and society ceases to satisfy, there is always the garden - Minnie Aumônier
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Was your Windstar as bad as ours was?
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wtg, thanks! Love cars. Love hearing about them.
I'm thinking it over.
The new Corolla design is very discreet.
Mik, I used the yes, no, or walk tactic. I always used it.
My question to you is-- these days-- how do you determine the price you are willing to pay? What references do you use to calculate that?
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@Steve-Miller - Yes
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It’s easier now than it ever was. I use Auto Trader, Kbb.com, Facebook marketplace. I only buy used, buying new would be different.
Once you decide on a make/model, look at all of the ads to get a feel for what it should cost. Do this over the course of a week or two and you’ll know when you see a good deal as well as when a dealer is having a genuine sale. Pay special attention to new car dealers selling used cars that are not their new car brand. They’ll be the first ones discounted toward the end of the month and they won’t have come from the auction.
I bought my truck that way. A 2017 Ford bought in 2020 with 10,000 miles on it. I’d had my eye on it but never looked at it as it was at a Toyota dealer on the other side of LA and the mileage looked janky. When they dropped the price $15K I decided it was worth a look.
Turned out to be legit. Carfax told the tale, every entry showed the mileage. Originally purchased by the Canadian Air Force in ‘17 and driven very little. Regularly serviced, registered in Montana 2 years later. Warranty service in CA shortly after that. Traded in on a Toyota when the owner figured out what kind of gas mileage it got.
Offered full price - not likely to find another like it. Probably overpaid for an extended warranty through Toyota but ended up using 80% of what I paid for the warranty on repairs, most of which had to do with being driven so little and the fact the jet jockeys ran leaded gas in it. The Toyota warranty turned out to be iron-clad, never a hassle.
It has 50K miles on it now and would still sell for close to what I paid for it. No matter- this will likely be my last truck.
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Pro tip: The sweet spot seems to be 3 years old. That’s when lease cars get turned in. Lots of cars available, generally dealer serviced.
We bought Sharon’s car that way.
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Have you looked at the rental companies? I have a relative who has very good experience buying from Enterprise. You don't know how they have been used, but the maintenance records are accurate.
I've fairly good luck with Mazdas. Unfortunately, several of them have ultimately died in accidents with family members so I don't know how far they might have gone.
Our current ride is a 2017 Subaru Forester, which has been good except for the clutch going out inside of 80,000 miles. I blame part of that on difficult driving conditions where my wife and I were living at the time.
The two best vehicles that have served me well were both Fords. My 1996 Aerostar van went to 268,000 miles before a series of minor problems and body rust made me get rid of it. The Ford Focus ST that I later bought reached 297,00 miles before Pennsylvania road salt made it uneconomical to repair. By the way, that was a 2,5L manual transmission car that never required a clutch replacement.
Big Al
Money seems to buy the most happiness when you give it away.
Why does everything have to be so complicated, all in the name of convenience. -ShiroKuro
A lifetime of experience will change a person. If it doesn't, then you're already dead inside. -MarkJ
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Thanks, everyone!
I'm thinking about a new Civic or Corolla (mainly because I'm having fun looking at them) and I'm also thinking about my original idea of a 2002- 6 generation Toyota Camry.
I'll probably come down on the practical side.
It would be an interesting challenge to find one in flawless condition with about 50k miles.
They made a dark green color I like during at least one of those model years.
I'd be very satisfied if I could find this car in green or white and since they last into the high 300,000's I wouldn't have to buy a car again.
We'll see.
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Have you looked at the rental companies? I have a relative who has very good experience buying from Enterprise. You don't know how they have been used, but the maintenance records are accurate.
I've fairly good luck with Mazdas. Unfortunately, several of them have ultimately died in accidents with family members so I don't know how far they might have gone.
Our current ride is a 2017 Subaru Forester, which has been good except for the clutch going out inside of 80,000 miles. I blame part of that on difficult driving conditions where my wife and I were living at the time.
The two best vehicles that have served me well were both Fords. My 1996 Aerostar van went to 268,000 miles before a series of minor problems and body rust made me get rid of it. The Ford Focus ST that I later bought reached 297,00 miles before Pennsylvania road salt made it uneconomical to repair. By the way, that was a 2,5L manual transmission car that never required a clutch replacement.
Big Al
@Big_Al Clutch went out in our 2013 Subaru Outback at 67k miles on a very bad stretch of road on the Merritt Parkway in Connecticut. Steep hill, no shoulder, steady traffic, me alone with a car full of my son's stuff as he was moving to Brooklyn, waiting an hour for a tow truck. Shudder. Some days are like that.
@Daniel. We've had good luck with Toyotas. Learned to drive stick on my Dad's Corolla in 1980ish, drove my 2006 Prius for 19 years until replacing it this year with a new 2024 Prius (which is currently being repaired from a not-my-fault collision)
Our mechanic had good luck buying from CarMax. He went over the vehicle and it was perfect. We sold three cars to CarMax this past year, and that was painless.
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@rustyfingers, thank you for that!
I found it!
I want this year, this color, and this condition.
http://gtcarlot.com/colors/car/33803010-2.html#google_vignette
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Make sure you test drive the car before buying it to check CVT noise levels. Drive it with both the windows all the way up and all the way down.
When I last drove CVT cars, it was a 2013 Mitsubishi Outlander and a Subaru XV Crosstrek. Both of them were very loud during acceleration. You couldn’t carry on a conversation with your passengers. There was a loud droning sound but it’s not present all the time. It was only upon acceleration. It’s an intrinsic problem with CVTs. The drone is coming from the engine because of the way CVTs work. Don’t know if automakers have solved the droning since I last drove one which was 2013.
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Good pick. Our 2010 Camry is going strong at 150K. Of course we probably put less than 200 miles a year on it.
@Mik said in Question for Streve and everyone:
Good pick. Our 2010 Camry is going strong at 150K. Of course we probably put less than 200 miles a year on it.
I need to be practical. I have expensive taste. I couldn't begin to have everything I'd like to own.
My cousin has the power to approve of or not approve disbursements already before probate closes (and she's done both).
It hit me pretty hard today there is a ledger for everything. Anything I receive today means I'll receive less later. Also, this doesn't include expenses needed to pay lawyers and court fees.
I have to be careful because I have to make my financial planning last however long I live. I have to think about what's truly important to achieve and have no room at this stage in my life for errors.
I want my own a place that doesn't need any structural renovation, a car, to be able to put gas in the car, and to maintain, and to insure it, and to be able to shop for food, and to stock my home with cleaning and maintenance supplies without undue stress.
It will take thought, discipline, and planning. I haven't lived by myself but after the last year I'm sure I can do better on my own.
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We have owned both Toyotas and Hondas and have had consistently better luck with the Toyotas. Of course the last Toyota we bought was a 2003 Sienna minivan.
Well, I take that back...my mom bought a 2009 Camry and I drove it occasionally for the short time she owned it.Besides having fewer mechanical issues with the Toyotas, we also consistently found their seats to be more comfortable. The Hondas had a very firm flat seat and seatback. I'm 5' 10" and have long legs, and the Honda had less thigh support. I found that driving our Prelude and my mom's Accord for long distances left me with a sore back.
OTOH, the Toyotas had more comfortable seats. Better lumbar support, and they just felt more comfortable to sit in. No back issues on long trips. Doesn't sound like you're looking at Subaru, but we found the Subaru to have seats that are very similar to the Toyota.
If you think you may have back seat passengers, be sure to try out the back seat to see how comfortable it is to get in and out of, and how much legroom it has. Our Ford Explorer had fabulous front seats and the most miserable back seats ever. My friend had a Honda Element and the back seats were awful, even for short trips.
Also listen for road noise. This is easier to observe at higher speeds, like on a highway.
Handling. The Hondas we owned had a much firmer ride and tighter handling; you could take corners and exit ramps at a nice clip and the car always felt like it was on rails. The Toyota ride was softer and the handling a bit looser. Still good, but just different. Again, on long trips we think the Toyotas were less fatiguing because you didn't feel all those bumps you tended to notice in the Hondas.
One thing I didn't like about the 2009 Camry were the roof pillars. For whatever reason they seemed to obscure key viewing areas, both when I looked through the front window and when I looked through the back. That car didn't have a backup camera so I still had to turn to look out the back window (I don't use just mirrors to back up), and it felt like a struggle.
As I said, my experiences with both of these manufacturers goes back a ways and both manufacturers have gone through a lot of design changes, so they may not apply.
Just for reference, here are the cars we have owned:
1978 Datsun B210
1978 Datsun 280Z
1981 Honda Accord
1986 Honda Prelude
1987 Toyota Camry wagon
1993 Ford Explorer
1996 Geo Prizm
1997 Ford Windstar
1999 Lexus ES300
2003 Toyota Sienna
2016 Subaru OutbackI'm sure there are others here who have more recent experiences with car buying, so pay more attention to them than me!
Good luck.
@wtg said in Question for Streve and everyone:
Also listen for road noise.
I feel like our Honda Fit is particularly bad in this regard, very noisy on the highway. We don't drive on the highway a lot, so it's fine, but it's something to keep in mind if you care.
Also, @wtg mentioned roof pillars, and our Fit is bad in that regard as well. Now good for visibility. We do have a back up camera and a camera on the side mirror, so that helps.
IIRC earlier Prius models also had thick roof pillars....
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Yeah, my two complaints about prior gen Prii were the rear visibility and the poor traction in snow. My new Prius has all wheel drive (finally). Probably not as important in warm climes
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Mrs. Kluurs is driving a 2004 Honda Accord with 96000 miles on it. Assuming the same rate of mileage - she should have the car for another 20 years. Actually, she'll likely drive less. There are "car people" "non-car people." We just want cars that run - don't need new, fast, sexy, etc. There are better places to put the fruits of one's labor.
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I'm a car person.
I love Audi (I've mentioned it) and Porsche (although I've driven them I've never owned one because I could never afford one).
I've always loved Honda Civics (since 1973) and Volkswagen Beetles (my first car was a '64 and I drove it for 10 years).
I got tired of the windshield wipers flying off in rain storms, the brake lines disintegrating in traffic, and it getting wet in the car through the rusted pan (independent car floor).
Next, I had a Plymouth Horizon until the day I could sell it. It broke down all the time.
The thing now is I'll be 58. I look young for my age but I don't feel young for my age. I need to be a realist like my father.
I'm considering a lifetime of owning various used and new cars as well as spending the last 15 years without a car.
I wrecked my '97 Honda Accord. Then I let someone drive my very reliable 2nd generation Hyundai Accent. He wrecked it. On a brighter note, the front airbags are why I'm here today.
So, putting these experiences together, the deal killer for me in terms of buying new (and I want a new base level Toyota Camry a lot) is depreciation.
I can't afford and don't want to pay for it. I'm fortunate I know how to research and choose used cars.
It's a big decision. I'm resolved to be prudent.
