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Ukraine

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  • wtgW Offline
    wtgW Offline
    wtg
    wrote on last edited by
    #29

    Zelensky is standing firm.

    President Volodymyr Zelensky pushed back at the U.S.’ demand for a $500 billion fund to be financed with Ukrainian natural resource revenue, saying that the U.S.’s aid grants are not debts, during the Ukraine: Year 2025 forum in Kyiv on Feb. 23.

    Negotiations on a deal to entrench U.S. interests in Ukraine's reserves are ongoing, with the latest draft presented by the White House demanding $500 billion of Ukraine’s natural resources, including critical minerals, to recuperate American aid to Ukraine.

    Zelensky said that he will not recognize such a large sum since it vastly outweighs the $100 billion the U.S. has sent to Ukraine under former President Joe Biden.

    The president added that the aid given to Ukraine cannot be counted as debts since they are grants and stressed that security guarantees need to be included in the deal. So far no such guarantees have been put in place, he said.

    “I am not signing something that will be paid by 10 generations of Ukrainians," Zelensky said, adding that he wants a dialogue with Trump.

    The initial White House proposal sought a 50% interest in Ukraine’s natural resources, including critical minerals, oil and gas, as well as critical infrastructure and ports. Zelensky said Ukraine is not ready to “split 50/50 without knowing what’s ahead.”

    The Ukrainian leader also pointed out that the U.S. proposed to return future aid with an interest of 1:2. “For every U.S. dollar, Ukraine must return two. In simple terms, this is 100% of the loan,” he said.

    https://kyivindependent.com/zelensky-wont-sign-a-natural-resource-deal-that-will-be-paid-by-10-generations-of-ukrainians/

    When the world wearies and society ceases to satisfy, there is always the garden - Minnie Aumônier

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    • D Offline
      D Offline
      Daniel
      wrote on last edited by Daniel
      #30

      Biden didn't send more than 100 billion? I'd like to see an accounting.

      The money Biden had for Ukraine and Israel and Trump has for Israel in comparison to Biden and now Trump not spending money in the US for the benefit of Americans is arguably disgusting.

      I've said this before and nobody here wanted to believe me then and nobody will probably want to believe me now but it's a proxy war.

      It has wrought plenty of death and destruction and should come to an end in my opinion.

      1 Reply Last reply
      • D Offline
        D Offline
        Daniel
        wrote on last edited by Daniel
        #31

        I agree though the mineral demands are outrageous.

        1 Reply Last reply
        • wtgW Offline
          wtgW Offline
          wtg
          wrote on last edited by
          #32

          Fareed Zakaria's take:

          https://www.cnn.com/2025/02/23/world/video/gps0223-trump-surrendering-to-russia

          When the world wearies and society ceases to satisfy, there is always the garden - Minnie Aumônier

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          • A Offline
            A Offline
            AndyD
            wrote on last edited by
            #33

            I heard our ex-ambassador to the States say you've given Ukraine $119billion.

            1 Reply Last reply
            • wtgW Offline
              wtgW Offline
              wtg
              wrote on last edited by wtg
              #34

              $114 billion and change through the end of last year.

              https://www.statista.com/statistics/1303432/total-bilateral-aid-to-ukraine/

              And this graph, as a percentage of each country's GDP:

              https://www.statista.com/statistics/1303450/bilateral-aid-to-ukraine-in-a-percent-of-donor-gdp/

              When the world wearies and society ceases to satisfy, there is always the garden - Minnie Aumônier

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              • D Offline
                D Offline
                Daniel
                wrote on last edited by
                #35

                Link to video

                Trump wasn't briefed or couldn't remember what he was told.

                1 Reply Last reply
                • A Offline
                  A Offline
                  AndyD
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #36

                  The only figures that Trump has a grasp on are female

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • Piano*DadP Offline
                    Piano*DadP Offline
                    Piano*Dad
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #37

                    ⬆

                    Crazy economist who likes to write about higher education.

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • wtgW Offline
                      wtgW Offline
                      wtg
                      wrote on last edited by wtg
                      #38

                      Zelenskyy: no security guarantee agreed with the US and minerals deal depends on Trump
                      Volodymyr Zelenskyy has said no security guarantee with the US has been agreed and described the deal between the two countries as a ‘framework’.

                      Speaking at a press conference earlier today, the Ukrainian president also said the success of an initial minerals agreement with the US will depend on President Trump.

                      Zelenskyy said a security guarantee with the US was essential. Speaking to the BBC, he added, “if we don’t get security guarantees, we won’t have a ceasefire, nothing will work, nothing.”

                      A White House official has cast doubt on Volodymyr Zelenskyy’s purported trip to Washington on Friday. Speaking anonymously to Reuters, the official said “If the Ukrainian leader says the deal isn’t finalised, I don’t see why an invitation would make sense. There’s an expectation that his coming is to recognise a final position, and he is not at a final position in his own words in this new wording.”

                      https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2025/feb/26/ukraine-russia-war-donald-trump-volodymyr-zelenskyy-valdimir-putin-emmanuel-macron-live-news-latest

                      When the world wearies and society ceases to satisfy, there is always the garden - Minnie Aumônier

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      • D Offline
                        D Offline
                        Daniel
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #39

                        A security guarantee would have been NATO membership and it has been denied. These events happened in the framework of the US violating certain promises and in the process destroying the global nuclear arms control framework. Russia was never going to accept Ukraine becoming a member of NATO. It was a bridge too far for them and they are the hegemonic power in the region.

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • wtgW Offline
                          wtgW Offline
                          wtg
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #40

                          Details on the deal. The most comprehensive description I've seen so far.

                          https://finance.yahoo.com/news/economic-deal-between-us-ukraine-191525595.html

                          When the world wearies and society ceases to satisfy, there is always the garden - Minnie Aumônier

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                          • wtgW Offline
                            wtgW Offline
                            wtg
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #41

                            How many resources are there, anyway?

                            https://www.cnn.com/2025/02/27/politics/trump-ukraine-minerals-doubts-resources/index.html

                            When the world wearies and society ceases to satisfy, there is always the garden - Minnie Aumônier

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            • P Offline
                              P Offline
                              pique
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #42

                              Zelensky is crazy to do any kind of deal with Trump. The man's word is worthless. A contract with him is worthless.

                              fear is the thief of dreams

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              • D Offline
                                D Offline
                                Daniel
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #43

                                He would be giving up minerals and not getting security. Peace must made between the parties at war. Zelensky is out of his depth.

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                • D Offline
                                  D Offline
                                  Daniel
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #44

                                  It happened the way I said it happened.

                                  Link to video

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  • wtgW Offline
                                    wtgW Offline
                                    wtg
                                    wrote on last edited by wtg
                                    #45

                                    Vance, Trump, and Zelensky get into a shouting match in the Oval Office.

                                    https://www.cbs19.tv/video/news/local/watch-meeting-with-president-donald-trump-volodymyr-zelenskyy-turns-into-shouting-match/501-86174ca0-af6a-4a15-a788-f6b9ee127ee2

                                    I keep saying this but I cannot believe this is happening.

                                    When the world wearies and society ceases to satisfy, there is always the garden - Minnie Aumônier

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                                    • wtgW Offline
                                      wtgW Offline
                                      wtg
                                      wrote on last edited by wtg
                                      #46

                                      Yowzers.

                                      Zelenskyy has left the White House moments ago, with the press conference between the two leaders, where they were expected to sign a deal on minerals, also cancelled.

                                      Zelensky posted this on X:

                                      Thank you America, thank you for your support, thank you for this visit. Thank you

                                      @POTUS, Congress, and the American people.

                                      Ukraine needs just and lasting peace, and we are working exactly for that.

                                      When the world wearies and society ceases to satisfy, there is always the garden - Minnie Aumônier

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      • A Offline
                                        A Offline
                                        AndyD
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #47

                                        Might as well jump on a China Airlines flight and see what Winnie Xi Pooh offers for the minerals

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        • Piano*DadP Offline
                                          Piano*DadP Offline
                                          Piano*Dad
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #48

                                          Glad the "deal" is cancelled.

                                          Crazy economist who likes to write about higher education.

                                          1 Reply Last reply
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