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AI "consciousness"

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  • D Offline
    D Offline
    Daniel
    wrote last edited by
    #3

    They don't have HUMAN consciousness NOR intelligence. Magic [trick] is a perfect analogy.

    'But as they said in one of the later Rocky movies, "Time...it's undefeated.".-- Mik

    1 Reply Last reply
    • JodiJ Offline
      JodiJ Offline
      Jodi
      wrote last edited by
      #4

      From a quick AI assisted google search (lol) - “ Knowledge is the information, facts, and skills you acquire through education and experience. Intelligence is the mental capacity to process that information, adapt to new situations, and solve problems effectively.”

      I would argue that AI absolutely has intelligence. That’s the kind of the whole point of using it. Its ability to process and problem solve. AI’s can train other AI’s - Google AI swarm - the capability of this technology is fascinating. It’s a whole new world, and it’s changing FAST.

      1 Reply Last reply
      • B Offline
        B Offline
        Bernard
        wrote last edited by Bernard
        #5

        AI cannot form opinions. That tells us a lot. It is, as I have often said, a fancy pants data retrieval system. If you view data retrieval as intelligence, then you can call it intelligent. I don't. AI does not know when it is wrong (or right). It is oblivious to it's functioning. Years ago we could write SQL statements asking for information "LIKE" something and the database software would find occurrences that were similar to what we were searching for. Was it intelligent? No. It was rudimentary AI (as it's called), mere pattern matching with rules. It gave the appearance of intelligence without actually being intelligent. Like everything else that is artificial, it isn't the thing it simulates.

        Questions to ask about AI': If it is intelligent, where does it's intelligence lie? If it is conscious, where does it's consciousness lie? In the data store? In the hardware that processes the code and data? In the software that controls it? In the human that programmed it? (In which case, we're talking about human intelligence, not machine intelligence.)

        The industrial revolution cheapened everything.

        AxtremusA 1 Reply Last reply
        • D Offline
          D Offline
          Daniel
          wrote last edited by Daniel
          #6

          My intelligence or lack thereof is not artificial. Lol.

          Epistemology is the branch of philosophy concerned with knowledge. Therefore, it not stands to reason that any argument made about, or debate about, knowledge is a philosophical argument, or debate. I maintain that "AI" is not human, that intelligence is a construct of consciousness, and that every time two words are deliberately, and at a specific moment in time, combined, artificially, in English, there is a game afoot, i.e. there is an agenda.

          In other words, I agree with Bernard.

          'But as they said in one of the later Rocky movies, "Time...it's undefeated.".-- Mik

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          • B Bernard

            AI cannot form opinions. That tells us a lot. It is, as I have often said, a fancy pants data retrieval system. If you view data retrieval as intelligence, then you can call it intelligent. I don't. AI does not know when it is wrong (or right). It is oblivious to it's functioning. Years ago we could write SQL statements asking for information "LIKE" something and the database software would find occurrences that were similar to what we were searching for. Was it intelligent? No. It was rudimentary AI (as it's called), mere pattern matching with rules. It gave the appearance of intelligence without actually being intelligent. Like everything else that is artificial, it isn't the thing it simulates.

            Questions to ask about AI': If it is intelligent, where does it's intelligence lie? If it is conscious, where does it's consciousness lie? In the data store? In the hardware that processes the code and data? In the software that controls it? In the human that programmed it? (In which case, we're talking about human intelligence, not machine intelligence.)

            AxtremusA Offline
            AxtremusA Offline
            Axtremus
            wrote last edited by
            #7

            @Bernard said:

            AI cannot form opinions.

            Sometimes, having an opinion is overrated and/or counterproductive. Depending on the circumstances, not having an opinion is a feature, not a bug.

            Questions to ask about AI': If it is intelligent, where does it's intelligence lie? If it is conscious, where does it's consciousness lie?

            Where do your intelligence and consciousness lie? Do you know?

            B 1 Reply Last reply
            • D Offline
              D Offline
              Daniel
              wrote last edited by
              #8

              I do but you didn't call on me.

              'But as they said in one of the later Rocky movies, "Time...it's undefeated.".-- Mik

              AxtremusA 1 Reply Last reply
              • D Daniel

                I do but you didn't call on me.

                AxtremusA Offline
                AxtremusA Offline
                Axtremus
                wrote last edited by
                #9

                @Daniel
                Oh, good, tell me where (you think or believe) your intelligence and consciousness lie.

                1 Reply Last reply
                • J Offline
                  J Offline
                  jon-nyc
                  wrote last edited by jon-nyc
                  #10

                  I disagree that intelligence arises from consciousness. An entity could (in theory) have one and not the other. Consciousness is subjective experience, in Nagel’s famous formulation, what it ‘is like’ to be something. Intelligence is the ability to solve problems, model the world, adapt, plan, reason, etc.

                  Also, to give Chalmers his due, the ‘hard problem of consciousness’ would prevent us from ever knowing if a machine were to develop consciousness.

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                  👍
                  • AxtremusA Axtremus

                    @Bernard said:

                    AI cannot form opinions.

                    Sometimes, having an opinion is overrated and/or counterproductive. Depending on the circumstances, not having an opinion is a feature, not a bug.

                    Questions to ask about AI': If it is intelligent, where does it's intelligence lie? If it is conscious, where does it's consciousness lie?

                    Where do your intelligence and consciousness lie? Do you know?

                    B Offline
                    B Offline
                    Bernard
                    wrote last edited by
                    #11

                    @Axtremus said:

                    Where do your intelligence and consciousness lie? Do you know?

                    I believe one of the main current areas of interest is some small area between the two hemispheres of the brain. I forgot what it's called. At this point, intelligence and consciousness probably need to discussed separately, since they are not the same thing.

                    The industrial revolution cheapened everything.

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • C Offline
                      C Offline
                      CHAS
                      wrote last edited by
                      #12

                      How to Properly Use AI to Help You Learn the Piano

                      Link to video

                      tLr2P2Q7pN7AFSp

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      • AxtremusA Offline
                        AxtremusA Offline
                        Axtremus
                        wrote last edited by Axtremus
                        #13

                        I asked ChatGPT where its intelligence lie and got the answer below from ChatGPT. In it ChatGPT also states that it does not have consciousness.


                        My “intelligence” isn’t located in a single place or stored like a database of facts. It comes from patterns learned during training and from computation happening when you ask a question.

                        At a high level:

                        • I’m a large neural network created by OpenAI.
                        • During training, the model processed enormous amounts of text and learned statistical relationships between words, concepts, reasoning patterns, coding structures, writing styles, and more.
                        • Those learned patterns are encoded in billions of numerical parameters (“weights”). That distributed pattern of weights is the closest thing to where my “knowledge” or “intelligence” resides.
                        • When you send a message, the model runs computations across those parameters to predict the most useful next pieces of language.

                        So my intelligence is:

                        • Distributed across the network’s parameters,
                        • Activated dynamically during inference (the moment you interact with me),
                        • And hosted physically on servers/GPUs in data centers rather than in a single machine or location.

                        It’s also important that I don’t “understand” in the human sense:

                        • I don’t have consciousness, emotions, beliefs, or self-awareness.
                        • I don’t experience thoughts internally the way humans do.
                        • I generate responses by modeling patterns and relationships in language and data.

                        One way to think about it:

                        • A traditional database stores explicit facts.
                        • A human brain stores memories through biological neural structures.
                        • A model like me stores compressed statistical structure across many layers of artificial neurons.

                        The “intelligence” emerges from the interaction of all those layers together, not from a central core.

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