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Pine tree dilemma

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  • S Offline
    S Offline
    Steve Miller
    wrote on last edited by Steve Miller
    #1

    This Japanese white pine tree was planted on an angle on purpose. The guy who designed the garden is particularly pleased with it.

    e6da0c60-ac21-4c4c-8979-9195b6d0dd2c-image.jpeg

    The idea is for it to grow in to this over some period of time:

    2a16e3bd-36ad-4ce6-82b9-f56b85132aa5-image.png

    Which is pretty cool, and he’s offered to prune it every year to get the look. Cost unspecified, but what price art?

    Reviews are mixed, however. Traditional Midwest gardener friends wax apoplectic; predicting fire, pestilence and a zombie apocalypse. My gardener friend likes it -a lot. My contractor has offered to straighten it up if I want but he really doesn’t want to.

    Your thoughts?

    ShiroKuroS 1 Reply Last reply
    • S Steve Miller

      This Japanese white pine tree was planted on an angle on purpose. The guy who designed the garden is particularly pleased with it.

      e6da0c60-ac21-4c4c-8979-9195b6d0dd2c-image.jpeg

      The idea is for it to grow in to this over some period of time:

      2a16e3bd-36ad-4ce6-82b9-f56b85132aa5-image.png

      Which is pretty cool, and he’s offered to prune it every year to get the look. Cost unspecified, but what price art?

      Reviews are mixed, however. Traditional Midwest gardener friends wax apoplectic; predicting fire, pestilence and a zombie apocalypse. My gardener friend likes it -a lot. My contractor has offered to straighten it up if I want but he really doesn’t want to.

      Your thoughts?

      ShiroKuroS Offline
      ShiroKuroS Offline
      ShiroKuro
      wrote on last edited by ShiroKuro
      #2

      Cool!!

      @Steve-Miller said in Pine tree dilemma:

      Reviews are mixed, however. Traditional Midwest gardener friends wax apoplectic; predicting fire, pestilence and a zombie apocalypse. My gardener friend likes it -a lot. My contractor has offered to straighten it up if I want but he really doesn’t want to.

      😁

      @Steve-Miller said in Pine tree dilemma:

      Your thoughts?

      I think it won't grow into an interesting shape like that without coaxing (i.e., something more than just pruning) to encourage it to stay/grow into that shape.

      Maybe I'm wrong. I mean, let's assume I'm wrong. After all, I'm a linguist, not a gardener! 😅

      1 Reply Last reply
      • JodiJ Offline
        JodiJ Offline
        Jodi
        wrote on last edited by Jodi
        #3

        I think you should leave it. It will be fine. It will start to grow upright again. It will look weird for awhile before it does, but the pruning will help. I say do what the landscape guy is suggesting.

        1 Reply Last reply
        • wtgW Offline
          wtgW Offline
          wtg
          wrote on last edited by
          #4

          It will start to grow upright again. It will look weird for awhile before it does

          Yup.

          I'm in the leave it as is camp, and I'm a Midwesterner. Of course I'm used to seeing evergreens with twisty trunks because the Eastern white cedars in Door County do all kinds of interesting things.

          alt text

          alt text

          When the world wearies and society ceases to satisfy, there is always the garden - Minnie Aumônier

          1 Reply Last reply
          • S Offline
            S Offline
            Steve Miller
            wrote on last edited by Steve Miller
            #5

            I’m thinking I’ll tether some ropes to it next year to get it to grow upright. One good Ohio winter should get it to straighten up. 😀

            ShiroKuroS 1 Reply Last reply
            • S Steve Miller

              I’m thinking I’ll tether some ropes to it next year to get it to grow upright. One good Ohio winter should get it to straighten up. 😀

              ShiroKuroS Offline
              ShiroKuroS Offline
              ShiroKuro
              wrote on last edited by
              #6

              @Steve-Miller said in Pine tree dilemma:

              I’ll tether some ropes to it next year to get it to grow upright.

              You mean, get it to grow upright with a bend in it, right?

              Yes, I think that kind of guidance is what people do in Japan, although I'll ask Mr Sk when I get home.

              S 1 Reply Last reply
              • ShiroKuroS ShiroKuro

                @Steve-Miller said in Pine tree dilemma:

                I’ll tether some ropes to it next year to get it to grow upright.

                You mean, get it to grow upright with a bend in it, right?

                Yes, I think that kind of guidance is what people do in Japan, although I'll ask Mr Sk when I get home.

                S Offline
                S Offline
                Steve Miller
                wrote on last edited by
                #7

                @ShiroKuro Please do!

                1 Reply Last reply
                • ShiroKuroS Offline
                  ShiroKuroS Offline
                  ShiroKuro
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #8

                  Yep, Mr SK said gardeners in Japan do all kinds of things, including attaching ropes to a trunk or branch, hanging a rock from a trunk etc.

                  He said his grandfather used to do bonsai and also full sized trees in their garden.

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • wtgW Offline
                    wtgW Offline
                    wtg
                    wrote on last edited by wtg
                    #9

                    Definitely get advice from the landscaper about the ropes. You really have to know what you're doing, or you can damage the tree.

                    It will want to grow towards the sun, so it will turn up on its own but it will take a bit longer than if you train it. But isn't part of a Japanese garden having things that aren't "perfect"?

                    When the world wearies and society ceases to satisfy, there is always the garden - Minnie Aumônier

                    ShiroKuroS 1 Reply Last reply
                    • wtgW wtg

                      Definitely get advice from the landscaper about the ropes. You really have to know what you're doing, or you can damage the tree.

                      It will want to grow towards the sun, so it will turn up on its own but it will take a bit longer than if you train it. But isn't part of a Japanese garden having things that aren't "perfect"?

                      ShiroKuroS Offline
                      ShiroKuroS Offline
                      ShiroKuro
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #10

                      @wtg said in Pine tree dilemma:

                      You really have to know what you're doing, or you can damage the tree.

                      Yep, that's what Mr SK said.

                      @Steve-Miller he found these two blog pages and said you might take a look, even though they're in Japanese you can check out the photos. He said one of the blogs describes breaking a branch from too aggressive shaping.
                      http://blog.ooyagaku.com/?eid=1032994
                      https://koeisika.ti-da.net/e9963588.html

                      S 1 Reply Last reply
                      • ShiroKuroS ShiroKuro

                        @wtg said in Pine tree dilemma:

                        You really have to know what you're doing, or you can damage the tree.

                        Yep, that's what Mr SK said.

                        @Steve-Miller he found these two blog pages and said you might take a look, even though they're in Japanese you can check out the photos. He said one of the blogs describes breaking a branch from too aggressive shaping.
                        http://blog.ooyagaku.com/?eid=1032994
                        https://koeisika.ti-da.net/e9963588.html

                        S Offline
                        S Offline
                        Steve Miller
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #11

                        @ShiroKuro Those links are excellent. This is what I’d like to learn.

                        Thanks! 👍

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • ShiroKuroS Offline
                          ShiroKuroS Offline
                          ShiroKuro
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #12

                          Oh great! I’m glad they helped! 😊

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • C Offline
                            C Offline
                            CHAS
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #13

                            Looks like a white pine trying to do a black pine's job. I vote for leaving it and let the guy
                            put the twists and bends in. That will show 'em.

                            “I’m at an age when remembering something right away is as good as an orgasm.”—Gloria Steinem to Julia Louis-Dreyfus on Wiser Than Me

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            • MikM Offline
                              MikM Offline
                              Mik
                              wrote on last edited by Mik
                              #14

                              Bonsai are supposed to be small. That's just a giant bonsai. I think it will grow upright by itself, but I sure as heck wouldn't pay an arborist to prune it every year for shaping. Interesting for him, expensive for you.

                              “I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
                              ― Douglas Adams

                              ShiroKuroS 1 Reply Last reply
                              • S Offline
                                S Offline
                                Steve Miller
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #15

                                I like to take a class or something and learn to do it my self. Maybe YiuRube vids?

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                • wtgW Offline
                                  wtgW Offline
                                  wtg
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #16

                                  I think I'd start small. That's a pretty expensive conifer to cut your teeth on.

                                  When the world wearies and society ceases to satisfy, there is always the garden - Minnie Aumônier

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  • MikM Mik

                                    Bonsai are supposed to be small. That's just a giant bonsai. I think it will grow upright by itself, but I sure as heck wouldn't pay an arborist to prune it every year for shaping. Interesting for him, expensive for you.

                                    ShiroKuroS Offline
                                    ShiroKuroS Offline
                                    ShiroKuro
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #17

                                    @Mik said in Pine tree dilemma:

                                    Bonsai are supposed to be small. That's just a giant bonsai.

                                    Yes bonsai are supposed to be small — bon means tray, sai means cultivate, so bonsai is cultivating a little tree in a tray.

                                    That being said, Japanese gardens often have shaped pine trees, they’re very popular.

                                    I think that’s what Steve is going for. Hence his willing ness to pay someone to expertly prune it for him. Which makes lot of sense to me.

                                    S 1 Reply Last reply
                                    • ShiroKuroS ShiroKuro

                                      @Mik said in Pine tree dilemma:

                                      Bonsai are supposed to be small. That's just a giant bonsai.

                                      Yes bonsai are supposed to be small — bon means tray, sai means cultivate, so bonsai is cultivating a little tree in a tray.

                                      That being said, Japanese gardens often have shaped pine trees, they’re very popular.

                                      I think that’s what Steve is going for. Hence his willing ness to pay someone to expertly prune it for him. Which makes lot of sense to me.

                                      S Offline
                                      S Offline
                                      Steve Miller
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #18

                                      @ShiroKuro At least the first time. Once it get a basic shape I can probably maintain it myself. The trick seems to be to proceed slowly and cautiously with a vision as to the desired final form. They grow very slowly and there is plenty of time.

                                      I’ll let it overwinter and address it in the Spring.

                                      ShiroKuroS 1 Reply Last reply
                                      • S Steve Miller

                                        @ShiroKuro At least the first time. Once it get a basic shape I can probably maintain it myself. The trick seems to be to proceed slowly and cautiously with a vision as to the desired final form. They grow very slowly and there is plenty of time.

                                        I’ll let it overwinter and address it in the Spring.

                                        ShiroKuroS Offline
                                        ShiroKuroS Offline
                                        ShiroKuro
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #19

                                        @Steve-Miller said in Pine tree dilemma:

                                        They grow very slowly and there is plenty of time.

                                        Good point!

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        • wtgW Offline
                                          wtgW Offline
                                          wtg
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #20

                                          Do you know which cultivar the pine is?

                                          When the world wearies and society ceases to satisfy, there is always the garden - Minnie Aumônier

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