Watching the debate?
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@Steve-Miller
Have done a 180 myself. Biden's debate team should be fired.
Trump spewed lies like a fire hose for 90 minutes.
Will take the old, stutterer over Trump anytime.
Krugman spoke too soon. He mentioned no one to take Biden's place. -
The real problem here is that Biden (and most Democrats) treat these meetings like debates, while Trump (and most Republicans) treat them like paid commercials...
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@Rontuner yes, that’s a good point.
Still, as I think about it, I think the real problem is 1) it probably is too late for Biden to step down, and therefore 2) we all need to get behind him and move forward and try to win this election, but 3) the media likes to report on problems and bad news, and they may not be able to switch away from calling for him to withdraw and focus on the issues.
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BTW my above comments were inspired by my mother, and she gave me permission to share a comment she made in a group chat she and I are in with some of her friends. (For the record, they’re all dems, and she’s very left, probably even more than me)
SK’s mom:
In addition to the impact that the inherently conservative effect of the electoral college, there is no doubt in my mind that The NY Times was a key factor in Hillary losing the 2016 election (with a plurality of votes). The NYT’s unrelenting coverage of her emails and the uncritical reporting on Trump’s appeal and showmanship were worth millions of dollars of campaign advertising for Trump. Case in point, media coverage of what Biden’s administration has accomplished - domestically and internationally - is not “news-worthy,” and not the focus today. Reports and opinion writers’ focus is and will remain on whether Biden should stay in the race, the issue will not go away, until it is no longer “news-worthy.“ Biden’s age is an issue that is easy to cover and for voters to immediately understand; and, it’s controversial and easily draws attention to what the national media report in print and online, which are key sources, if not the main source, for online commentary, TV news and right-wing radio, that 20/7 noise for all things alt-right. While there are critics of how the main media sources cover elections, they are not as “loud” as what’s online and on the screen. Frankly, I think Biden has already lost the election, his successful time in the presidency will not matter, and the question is not can he beat Trump it is whether will he step down or let Trump win.
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So it may be too late, but we — and the liberal and centrist media — probably really need to shift messaging to focus on calling out Trump…
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I think that where some of us differ on this is that we don't view Biden's performance at the debate as a one-off, something he can shake off. Biden had no business running for the nomination in the first place and he no longer has the skills to be President. He will have bad days and good days but I stand firm in my position that he is not the person he was even four years ago, and that he will never be.
This is not the media's fault. They were all over the Access Hollywood tape and it didn't make a damn bit of difference to the Trump supporters. Hillary took the swing states for granted and didn't campaign there, so she and her campaign team must take responsibility for that. Those states are where she lost the election.
The coverage of the first Trump administration was relentless. If anything, Biden has gotten a pass from left-leaning media, which has either explained away or ignored his decline over the course of his presidency.
We are a divided country and every race is a close race. Trump never had the skill set needed to be president but he got elected once anyway. Half the country voted for him in 2016 and they will vote for him again in 2024 for many of the same reasons that Dems like myself will vote for Biden if he is the candidate, even if we don't think he's a good choice for the job. It's a choice between bad and worse and for many voters, they fear the other guy more than they fear their own.
I will vote for the Dem candidate, including Biden, no matter what, because I believe they have the best interests of the country at heart and I think another Trump administration is a huge risk to the country.
This was always going to be a tight race and in one sense, nothing has changed. I understand that the mechanics of replacing Biden are complicated and that it would be a risky endeavor to attempt it, but there's part of me that wonders if the Dems had a candidate that was the least bit competent (and one would think that would pretty easy to do given the choices we currently have), it would attract the voters who are on the fence about what to do.
And of course Biden would need to withdraw voluntarily. Removing him by force, if you will, would be a disaster.
We certainly live in interesting times.
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@wtg said in Watching the debate?:
I think that where some of us differ on this is that we don't view Biden's performance at the debate as a one-off, something he can shake off. Biden had no business running for the nomination in the first place and he no longer has the skills to be President. He will have bad days and good days but I stand firm in my position that he is not the person he was even four years ago, and that he will never be.
I agree with this. As you said, if he's on the ticket, he has my vote. But I don't want him on the ticket.
This is not the media's fault.
I don't think they're solely to blame, but they can either help or hurt, and how this is reported in the coming days and weeks will have an important impact.
I understand that the mechanics of replacing Biden are complicated and that it would be a risky endeavor to attempt it, but there's part of me that wonders if the Dems had a candidate that was the least bit competent (and one would think that would pretty easy to do given the choices we currently have), it would attract the voters who are on the fence about what to do.
I think getting someone else on the ticket could motivate a lot of people who might otherwise stay home.
And of course Biden would need to withdraw voluntarily. Removing him by force, if you will, would be a disaster.
Yep, this is the big thing.
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Biden looked great at the SOTU. The debate not so much but he didn’t lie, he didn’t threaten his enemies, and he hasn’t been convicted of felonies.
Let’s move on.
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but he didn’t lie
He did misspeak. A bunch of times.
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Misspeak is different from deliberate lie, IMHO.
Spanky got up there and lied his ass off.
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Whataboutism isn't going to fly here. Do you really think that voters who are undecided are thinking about whether Trump lied? Spanky has been doing that for his entire political career. Hell, he's been doing it his whole life. It's not news. Plus he's delusional on top of being a liar. Doesn't make a damn bit of difference to half the country. Some of us figured him out in 2016; it's taken others a lot longer to come to that conclusion and they're still thinking about voting for him.
I said it earlier. I have had an uncomfortable feeling about Biden for at least a year now. My heart sank when he announced his candidacy. I have a lot of respect for what he has accomplished. As with any president, that was with the help of the people around him. And I think they contributed way more than they're letting on. They're a group of consummate professionals and just put their heads down and do the job.
And if I'm being totally honest with myself, if the performance we saw from Biden on Thursday had come from a GOP candidate, I'd be thinking 25th Amendment. And that's because it's on top of the other stuff that I've been trying to excuse and explain away in a desperate attempt to deny what's happening.
Read the WSJ article about diplomats who have been with him over the last year. The debate was not an anomaly. It's just the first time he's imploded in full view of the American public. I'd love to be wrong, but I don't think there's any way it will be the last.
I wouldn't want Thursday night's Biden to be the guy in the situation room if Putin does something unexpected and stupid. Just sayin'
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