Piano Class

ShiroKuro

@Bernard That's awesome!!! You pick a beautiful piece to start with!!

Can you tell me how the class works, since I always think of group piano class as something for beginners.

Bernard

@ShiroKuro This class is specifically for adults, any level I believe. The class is small. There were only three of us today. There is a limit of 8. The number of students may change during the first few weeks of the semester as everyone settles into what they want.

We can each play something for the class, then each student in turn offers comments (in a supportive way), then the teacher offers his. Discussion ensues.

I will play the Nocturne again next week, keeping in mind what I received today. For instance, one student thought my 2 against 3 wasn't always clear--with which I agree. The topic of rhythm was brought up but what I really think, is the piece didn't 'flow' (first class, nerves, unfamiliar piano, like yeah). The teacher focused on the first measure which is very free form, and repeated, before the piece really begins. I've struggled with meaning for this measure and how to play it. And from what I've listened to on Youtube, I'm not alone. Everyone plays it differently!

In one of the group classes I took before covid, we also read a book (piano or music related), reading a chapter during the week and discussing it in class. I don't think we'll be doing that in this class.

kluurs

Bernard - Miriam Batashivali did a bunch of mini-lessons on that nocturne. i thought they were quite helpful. They're only on TikTok to my knowledge.

https://www.tiktok.com/@mariampiano/video/7335824947605998880?q=Mariam Batsashvili chopin &t=1758081241700

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kluurs

Hopefully, you can see those??

ShiroKuro

@Bernard that sounds wonderful, I would love to do something that!

What kind of school is the place where this class is held?

Bernard

@kluurs I can see them! I'm not on TikTok but they're playing ok. Thanks!

I've watched about half of them, will watch remainder later. I'm glad to see her take on the first two measures. I've watched a lot of recordings of this and there are so many interpretations, from extremely slow to very rubato to barely any expression at all. I think they're a tough couple of measures.

Bernard

@ShiroKuro It's a private music school (by which I mean it's not affiliated with any universities or colleges).

https://uvmusic.org/

I don't particularly like the name of the place. When I first moved here, I thought it was a music store! Such as it is. But it's a wonderful resource.

Bernard

@kluurs I'm so happy to see her take the 2nd half of the middle section at the correct tempo. (Day 12 video) In almost all the youtube recordings I've watched, the pianist speeds up this section, and I've not been able to figure it out, because there's no tempo change in the manuscript.

Maybe it's related to their hearing the second piano concerto. Chopin wrote this Nocturne for his older sister as an etude in preparation for playing the second concerto. Both parts of the middle section appear in the concerto. I wonder if this is why pianists speed up at that point?

Bernard

Interesting to me that she decides to play major chord (Day 21) four measures from the end. I have the same edition she has, in which there are two versions. The first version goes major four bars from the end. I'm playing the first version but have borrowed the minor chord from the second version because I like hearing the switch to major right at the end (two bars from the end) because I think it makes a wonderful effect.

Bernard

Thanks again, kluurs. Those were enjoyable.

kluurs

I'd hoped you'd find it worth the watch. She comes across as a kind and knowledgeable teacher. At the time, she was hoping to have people learn the work and then post their version which she would critique - all out of the generosity of her heart. She did some exposition on other works - but sadly, not to this level. She's also done some general mini-lessons on other piano performance-related issues.

ShiroKuro

@Bernard It sounds like a wonderful place! I love the idea of group class you're in! Not at all what I think of when I hear "group piano."

You'll have to post back as things progress and share how it goes!

Bernard

We're a little over half way through now. I've spent up til now on the Nocturne. Luckily, the class is small and we all usually get a chance to play each week. It's been challenging (yay!). The teacher is very knowledgeable (Eastman and Harvard) and has lots of valuable input to contribute. He is all about studying what the composer (Chopin in my case) wrote, and analyzing not only the explicit instructions (if any were given) but voice leading, harmonic progression, etc., in a word: theory. It's tough, but I consider it a gift to get this exposure.

I am naturally inclined to go with "how does this music make me feel" rather than theoretical analysis. Of course a large part of the reason for that is my lack of theoretical knowledge! None of the teachers I ever had could expound at length about the importance of certain chords in context, etc. At times in this class I've felt a tinge of getting lost in the details. And the urge to 'forget it all' and simply play what I feel tugs at me. But I know, somewhere within, the value of thinking about the information being given and trying to incorporate it. It's been a bit of a struggle at times. But it's good work.

I wish I knew more theory. I wish I knew it well enough to let go of it, to transcend it. Because in the end, theory can inform us, but it's not the ends. Making music is the ends.

At the very least, this class has made me think, and exposed me to another way of working on a piece. Not forgetting that analysis is only one facet of approaching a piece of music.

I mentioned last Tuesday that I wanted to give the Nocturne a bit of rest in class (I will play it again before the semester ends) so I expect to play the first Polonaise next Tuesday. That should be fun!

AndyD

Link to video

Bernard is it this beautiful piece you've learnt?

ShiroKuro

@Bernard I feel you re theory…. I enrolled in a music theory class during the summer and ended up dropping it because it was completely divorced from musical context (if you can believe that!). The instructor just jumped in with what felt to me like an approach that was just “memorize this just because” without contextualizing how those concepts would apply. It was very frustrating.

But since you’re doing this inthe context of a piece, I am sure it’s much more tightly relevant. I can imagine the tug to focus on something less technical/analytical, but at the same, you could probably do that quite nicely without the teacher’s guidance. This teacher is giving you something you can’t get on your own, and that alone is valuable, I would guess.

@AndyD that’s a lovely performance! Thank you for sharing it! I recognize the pianist’s name but I’m not especially familiar with his playing. But I love how unrushed it feels. Some performances of this piece feel more intense, whereas this one has a lot of breath and space to luxuriate inside.

AndyD

Do you think age allows greater expression of slow & quiet passages?
Yuja Wang is an exception but when you hear her playing Chopin aged 11, it's like she's now already musically in her 90's.

Btw, my old piano teacher bless her, would, through her tears of joy, be shouting at Pressler "raise those wrists" and "none of that curled pinky"
... a classical old school concert pianist was she.

ShiroKuro

@AndyD said in Piano Class:

Do you think age allows greater expression of slow & quiet passages?

I don't think it's age.... I think it's intention.

I think it takes intention and a vision to breath into the music like that, to let the space between the notes expand, to resist the urge to rein in the expansion....

It also takes patience and calm....

So yes, maybe I'll contradiction myself a bit, these things are perhaps easier to bring the fore with age and experience.

ShiroKuro

@AndyD said in Piano Class:

Btw, my old piano teacher bless her, would, through her tears of joy, be shouting at Pressler "raise those wrists" and "none of that curled pinky"
... a classical old school concert pianist was she.

btw I love this!

Bernard

@AndyD That is, indeed, the one. So beautiful, but Chopin was adamant that it never be published! I've wondered about that a lot. I wonder why? I believe it was his sister and publisher who decided to publish it after his death. There are two more opus posthumous Nocturnes which I'm also learning. All three are very beautiful, imo.

Bernard

@ShiroKuro Oh, that's too bad about the class. It goes that way some times.

WTF-Beta

Piano Class